DSLR: What money are we saving? Carbon Fiber?????

M

mikecazzx

Well-known member
After seeing the "carbon fiber" Letus Hawk review over at Planet5d , I just felt I had to write this and I am sure I am not the first to do so.

Off topic rant: mitch at planet5d did not even bother to talk about how it works in relation to viewing video on the damn thing, what waste of my time, "best hdslr site on the planet" my ass

A complete industry has sprung up around the DSLR. Do we really need a carbon fiber viewfinder at $399? Why is it carbon fiber? Give me a break. Do we really need a cage to hold the camera, or a small truck, for $800? Hey letus, how about giving us a decent optic in a plastic or fiberglass box for around $99 max? By the time you are done, you could have purchased a semi pro camera designed for doing the job right in the first place.

For me it was the combination of stills and video that brought me to the GH1. I am very happy with the product, especially now that the hack has brought it to insane levels of quality.

Personally, I wish there was more time spent designing and researching DIY equipment to go along with the DSLR's. The prices are INSANE on the accessories. They must be making 1000% markup like a pizzeria.

I am just adding this last bit in to show that I am indeed practicing what I preach.
I am about 75% done building a slider for about $50. It moves smoother than anything I have seen including those for $800. I hope to add a basic motor for another $15. 85% of my design is from others creating and sharing. We need more of this here. While it does not look as cool, I built a small viewfinder from a cardboard box, a sock and a loupe from harbour freight. Cost, $6.
 
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I'd be interested in seeing these slider plans if you have them, along with some footage!

No, all of that stuff isn't necessary, so it's nice to be able to build as you go. There's no way I could afford a $3000 camera just shy of a year ago, but I was able to pick up the t2i and h4n, save a little, get a new lens, save a little, get another lens (lather rinse repeat), save a little get a shotgun mic and so on. Will I spring for a cage? Probably not. Will I end up getting a monitor? Unless I can find an affordable one, I don't see it happening soon. Yes, I COULD buy tons of stuff for the camera, but it's like that with any camera. You pick up an EX1, and you've paid about $5000 (? just a guess ... haven't really checked in a while). So you want DOF? Why not pay $2000 more for the letus? Well you're going to need a better mic than the onboard, so...

It's a vicious cycle, no matter what you start with.
 
There's a great DIY section on the forum, by the way.

More to the point: are you suggesting that (looks aside) your $6 cardboard/sock loupe is as durable, reliable, professional, and has the same functionality as the Letus? Are you really willing to rely on a piece of cardboard when you've spent MONTHS getting together cast, crew, locations and other resources for a project you fought and bled for? Are you seriously suggesting that Letus could reasonably make an LCD loupe that has the base plate, mounting bracket, eye cup and optics and sell it PROFITABLY to a niche market while running a real company that has to pay real employees and provide real customer support and warranty for $99? Even if someone did that (hint: hoodman) it'll come out a lot less robust, a lot less professional, and a lot less attractive. (hint: yes on all counts) If durability, reliability, and professional appearances doesn't factor into your purchasing decisions, then you're not in their target market.

By the way, you go ahead and find me "a semi pro camera designed for doing the job right in the first place." that has a full-frame 35mm sensor and I'll buy it. Heck, find me one that has a S35 sensor for less than $13,300 and I'd seriously consider it. What do I have to buy for a 7D that I can't use on other cameras? I can use a mattebox, follow focus, rails, external monitor, dolly, jib, even an audio recorder. Not every accessory has to be DSLR specific. I shoot with a 5DmII currently, but 95% of everything I buy has nothing to do with the 5D, just film making.

Have you also considered that some of us don't have the time, inclination, or skill to DIY up a viewfinder?
 
meauounji said:
What do I have to buy for a 7D that I can't use on other cameras? I can use a mattebox, follow focus, rails, external monitor, dolly, jib, even an audio recorder. Not every accessory has to be DSLR specific. I shoot with a 5DmII currently, but 95% of everything I buy has nothing to do with the 5D, just film making.

Have you also considered that some of us don't have the time, inclination, or skill to DIY up a viewfinder?
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thats the route i take...everything i buy for my 7d is supposed to be used with ANY camera i get. so i look on it as a long term investment.
 
I don't think he was suggesting Letus could build a cardboard loupe, or that everybody should go DIY, just that a good plastic should be more than good enough for an accesory that will suffer little physical stress

you can go with ABS if you're very worried... carbon fiber is overkill, and, I think, just bling
 
Just a side note. I was working with an engineering company that was designing a carbon fiber scope ring mount for assault and sniper rifles. The idea being to replace a heavy metal alloy product with a light weight one. In the process I learned there are about a zillion formulations of CF material, some being proprietary. In the product testing process I saw CF for high stress use fail by shattering, bending and chipping. It took about 5 different specialized formulations before they found the right one. So, don't believe all the hype about carbon fiber. In many cases it is just marketing hype. Formulations have to be just right for the application. As a consumer you have no way of knowing how much testing and research went into the product nor how it will perform over time. CF products that have been out for a while will have the most user feedback. I wouldn't take a chance on a new product if very expensive.
 
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NormanBates said:
still, totally unnecessary on an LCD loupe --> just bling
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I do at least agree that the carbon fiber is just bling. I used a Z-finder for a while and their plastic was just great. Incidentally, I do believe that a Z-finder is a bit... optimistic... in pricing. So I'm not saying that $399 for a loupe isn't a lot of money, but if I were making a product that looked anything like theirs, I wouldn't charge any less than $299 for it.

We hear a lot of talk that sounds like "this thing is over priced because it's made of about $10 in materials" in this section of the forum, but the truth is; material cost isn't even close to being the only thing factored into a product's cost. You could spend a lot of time talking about the costs that a COMPANY incurs in order to sell that $10 block of plastic, metal and glass, reshaped into a useful object for your highly niche market, using American labor. On top of that, the amount of time and energy that goes into designing and prototyping a product alone means that Letus or Zacuto won't even turn a profit until enough units are sold. Let's not even go into the fact that material cost doesn't get mass-production low until you're willing to buy it in mass-production quantities. Try getting a block of aluminum custom milled at your local shop and all of a sudden you're going to start to think that $399 for a loupe or $650 for a follow focus isn't that bad of a deal.

In the end, you vote with your dollars. Their value proposition will either work or it won't, but the beauty of it is that they have the opportunity to present you with their product and you have the choice to either buy or make your own.
 
Its just like any other industry. Its expensive cause they don't want every uncle bob on the planet to be able to do it. Supply and demand. Gini is getting all the business, but what happens in a couple of years when DSLR's get taken over by the new technology.
 
I been using homemade plastic loop with magnefy glass 2 years, paid shots and 75,000 kilometer airplane. Works finely awesome! Don't wast on zacuto unless rich. But if rich why you use gh1? Even adam wilt know the truth if you read his article. Don't get flossed!
 
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