Dracast LED Panels, old & new: thoughts and experience?

CharlesPapert said:
Hard diffusion have been around since the early LED units (1st gen lightpanels). If properly designed, they are very efficient. I've been using an industrial material that is designed specifically for LED's--the back side collects the light and the front diffuses, so the transmission is actually better than diffusion on the roll with similar softening capability.

Tough spun is a pretty inefficient diffuser. I'm quite surprised to see it mentioned so much on this board. I haven't seen it in use on sets for a good 25 years. I'd even go as far to say that we refer to it as a punch line!
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You have a source for these white panels? I would like to experiment with them.
 
markfpv said:
... Incidentally, that makes me think of those hair nets you find in food or drug manufacturing facilities - which can substitute as decent diffusers for cool lights if you're in a pinch. I think I still have a stash of them from when I was shooting lots of that type of footage. The extra large size still probably won't cover a 1x1 - but should fit over smaller 6" x 12" units. (wouldn't recommend trying them on your tungsten units)
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White pantyhose.
 
With LED's you REALLY want something that will blend the dots together. A mesh or grid will compound the multiple shadow issues. I find that even without those being a problem, it's really tough for talent to have to look into that matrix of punishment.
 
Oh agree. Sorry - should have said I would only use these in a pinch for a hair light / rim light or when filming something other than talent.
 
MattinSTL said:
I've had a gig move to next week... and a couple that went away this week (welcome to "freelancer's blues")... but that's good for making video. I could do a video comp in my garage during the day, but it has white walls... so it could be misleading. The ideal comp IMO... is without bounce, so you know what you're truly getting off the face of the light. Of course in the real world... total lumens put into a room, and what the shot LOOKS like... are key... so maybe I'll just grab some duvee and do something in the garage anyway.

The light I'm referring to, is hopefully the one you guys are also referring to... it's the Silver SOFT LED1000... that (as you said) B&H does not picture. The face of the Astra is 11" x 11"... while the DRSS1000B is 11.75" x 4.5"... so about 40% as much "face" (ballpark, I'm not doing the math, but I guess that's close). I've included a picture of the two faces lit... because the Astra has a barely perceptible "grid" of LEDs behind the frost... while the Dracast has a clear "bar" of LED through the center, using reflectors to try to fill out the face... which it doesn't do very well. I suspect the reflector is just the inside of the extruded aluminum heatsink that forms the back of the light. Keep in mind however, at the price... what do you expect?

Another thing to notice in the "lit faces" shot... is the difference in color temp. BOTH are set to 100% daylight, and you can see the Dracast isn't even close. The DRSS1000B has a wide-range of color, but you must bring it up about 25% before it develops a usable range... otherwise it's probably around 4300. It's hard to tell as it doesn't change regardless of where I set the color dial. The Astra Soft, is of course... nearly perfect in range of color, and intensity. The Astra does turn off at the lowest dimming setting, and suddenly comes on as you turn it up... i.e. it's not going to do a "barely on" dim setting... although it does dim to about 1/4 the brightness of the Dracast.

As lighting power is exponential... I woke up this morning sort of regretting the posting of numbers for comparison. To do justice to both lights, I should do this at a few color settings and distances.

B&H had a promotion last year... totally unannounced... for NAB... where they offered the Astra Soft, with the BT module, for $1350. I never spent even ONE THIRD of that on a light before... but I'd been watching Diva 400 deals on eBay... and maybe this was an impulse use of a credit card. I gotta' say... I wish I would have bought 2. The Astra Soft is brighter than a Diva 400... and the light quality is good (nice wrap, etc)... BUT... it's preposterous to compare even a $1350 light, with a $200 light... and expect the $200 light to be "on-par". So... with that in mind, I still think the Dracast seems to be quite a bargain... and should be really effective, when used properly.

Really my main criticisms are (not counting the fact that I think the name is very misleading, as people tend to think of LED as a commodity product... i.e. how many am I buying in this shell?)... I don't like the fiddly-bits... the dim and color knobs feel quite cheap, as does the whole module... and I dislike separate power-supplies. Basically... this light would benefit from a few big 'ole zip-ties to gather up all but the AC cable, IMO. Also... the stand adapter looks a bit cheap and cheesy... Meanwhile... the rest of the light seems well-constructed. So again... I gotta' say... $200... what do you expect? Seeing Dracasts OTHER "LED1000" products... I figured this thing was going to be at least a 1x1... so when it arrived, I was a bit miffed... and seeing that CLEARLY... it's more like an LED250 (see faces shot)... well... it's off-putting that they're taking advantage of the hidden LEDs to choose that name... but... whatever... I have to remind myself that every time I think there's about to be a free-lunch... there isn't one.

I don't know what it is about me... but I really admire when something good can be done without spending a ton. While my sound kit has evolved through the years, and even the lighting I have is mostly for personal (or friends') use... I still gravitate toward ideas like yours. What's impressive about making a nice shot with a bunch of expensive lights? If the shot doesn't look good, and you have the best tools... *ugh*... that's a blow to the ego, but the opposite of that is making gold with affordable tools. It's a good feeling.
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Thanks for putting some thoughts and pics out there. Seems like it could be useful as a hairlight, but wow...the color is so drastically off from the Astra!
 
ozmorphasis said:
Thanks for putting some thoughts and pics out there. Seems like it could be useful as a hairlight, but wow...the color is so drastically off from the Astra!
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Keep in mind, that is only at the lowest dimming setting The drakcast develops usable color range after 25% or so.

The ice storms in the Midwest have me busy again but I will add more to this after this gig passes
 
I have a few of them - the 2K is AMAZING, the rest are about as bright as 65% of their rating (ie: 1k is about a 650) but that's because they're bi-color. The full daylight units are about 100% if that makes sense.... The 2k is big and cumbersome but a gorgeous light... add a few layers of tough spun. (answwering question about the blue dracasts).
 
also keep in mind - that Dracast comparison was with their cheapest line - the blue "plus" line is far more powerful and accurate.
 
Dracast update and answer about their (older) 1K Fresnel...

so I have measured and tested all of my panels and fresnels. Dracast now has 4 different lines of just panels (crazy) there's the: silver, silver soft, the plus and the pro. They are significantly different in quality and output. SO make sure you really research.

That said, i'm in love with 2 of them and i'm selling the rest. The fresnel will light an entire room at asa 400 and allows you to dial in subtle color to match what's coming through the window or from a lamp. It's amazing for half the price (I bought it used) but even new, $1600 for a 1k HMI you can plug into a wall - pretty insane.

My other love I will keep is the led2000 bicolor plus. It's a giant panel - check it here:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...l_led2000_b_led2000_plus_series_bi_color.html
 
So - just to clarify - you have and are happy with the 1k fresnel 6.8" bi-color? I assume you can't compare it to an HMI - but rather the output is similar to a 1K tungsten equivalent but is also bi-color?
I'm still debating several different "large" fixtures - and this one remains on my list...
 
markfpv said:
So - just to clarify - you have and are happy with the 1k fresnel 6.8" bi-color? I assume you can't compare it to an HMI - but rather the output is similar to a 1K tungsten equivalent but is also bi-color?
I'm still debating several different "large" fixtures - and this one remains on my list...
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So yes - there are currently 2 1k bi-color Fresnels from Dracast - here are the links: (I have the 1st one, which is "older" but they are very different:)

1. https://bhpho.to/2nhrx0M (for $1750 - currently includes a small $250 "on camera" LED panel) This is the "LED1000" model

2. https://bhpho.to/2mycz8r (for $715 w/ DMX and $895 w/ WiFi) This is "LED 1500" model, but these are 2 different lines.

*#2 above is called a 1500 where as the 1st one is called a 1000, BUT see specs below - model names are misleading.
*Both above are bi-color, but both models also appear to come in daylight or tungsten as well, which I assume gets you more power out of at the same size)


As far as I can tell, the main diffs are:
1. PRICE (duh.)
2. Model #1 claims a CRI of Greater Than 90 while Model #2 claims 95.
(I find Dracast products to be consistent regardless of CRI rating - at least amongst their brand)
3. Both have adjustable beam from 15 - 60 degrees, the OUTPUT (which I assume is for the exact middle color balance - about 4400K):
(Both measurements are at a distance of 6 feet):
Model #1 - 15 degrees: 3450 lux - 60 degrees: 1270 lux
Model #2 - 15 degrees: 666 lux - 60 degrees: 153 lux
*I had to dig around to find this info but it comes from dracast - this would DEF explain the major price difference.
4. I'm guessing that the older (more expensive) model is made from more substantial materials and is closer to the physical quality of an Arri. I have not seen model #2 series in person, so I can't vouch - but the WEIGHTS of the lights may be telling:) Model #1: 18 lbs. Model #2: 13 lbs.

I hope all this helps, I can say this for Dracast - I have had issues with 2 different models and both times they fixed (or replaced) promptly and even followed up to check in on me, they are very dedicated to their customers and their reputation. And when you cal, you get their actual California office).
 
One last thing I didn't mention - the older model (more powerful, more expensive) is almost indistinguishable from an Arri HMI. If I hid the sources and you were looking at my set, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference - no flicker, and the daylight end is clean and amazing. I'm considering ditching a few panels for more of these... I would buy the daylight if I had it to do again to get the extra output and because it's also cheaper, ha. Good luck - hit me up with questions.
 
Thank you evolvnyc for that clarification. It seems Dracast is now coming out with so many different lines, they are only confusing most of us. I was / am definitely leaning toward that earlier 1000 model for a big source to use thru diffusion and/or bounce... and you make a real good point about daylight instead of bi-color for the extra output. I need to confirm this with them to be sure. I have two of their 1x1 "plus" models and have been quite happy with the light output & quality. And agree with you - when I've called them, you get to talk to an actual person who is knowledgeable about product and helpful.
 
Yes it is dizzying how many "lines' they have. As a general rule, it seems to me that the price usually correlates with the quality/intensity. For example, the above fresnels I mentioned, I looked it up today and the #2 model (the newer Dracast 1500 fresnel) is about equivalent to a 300 watt tungsten where as the older led1000 fresnel is almost a 1k. This explains the diff in price. I would def recommend the older version but they are quite expensive. I've started using it more and it's a steal if you can find it used - the quality (almost) of an Arri 1.2 without the ballast or heat... at 1/3 of the price. Hope that helps.
 
My bi-color plus panels have worked well for me... but I do have to baby them and worry about that yoke not lasting. But using V lock for quick set ups is killer.
I'm really tempted by the newest fresnels... which I believe are identical to the Intellytech and Falcon lines - so must all be mfg in the same place (at least the COB LEDs) but are stamped with different US companies logo's etc. The fan / wifi app even sounds identical. Here are the specs (pg 5) of the 160w / 300w / 480w models - and if correct, the daylight isn't much brighter than the bi-color: (which makes being able to dial up to 8000kelvin an intriquing possibility)
http://www.dracast.com/uploads/5/2/8/9/5289742/fresnel_operation.pdf
 
Just keep in mind that the new Fresnels are deceiving in their model names - the "1500" is equivalent output to less than 600 if I remember correctly. It can be impossible to find the specs for their stuff sometimes - just make sure you check. That's why my 1K was 3 times the cost of the new model 1500, it's far brighter. Good luck, please come back and share some stills and your experience with the new fresnels!
 
evolvnyc said:
Just keep in mind that the new Fresnels are deceiving in their model names - the "1500" is equivalent output to less than 600 if I remember correctly. It can be impossible to find the specs for their stuff sometimes - just make sure you check. That's why my 1K was 3 times the cost of the new model 1500, it's far brighter. Good luck, please come back and share some stills and your experience with the new fresnels!
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This is a Dracast thing. Their LED1000 Soft is neither comparable to 1000w, nor has 1000 LEDs in it. There's a heavy frost on the front of 'em... and I'm sure they know what they're doing with this BS name. One LED1000 has 1000 LEDs... another is a 1x2... another is a folding 2x 10x10... and then the Silver Soft LED1000 has no pics anywhere... meanwhile it's nothing like anything else they sell that says "1000".

We are entering the golden age of LED evolution... spectacular output, color, and versatility... which unfortunately means expanding BS. I have yet to see an LED light that actually compares to the HMI or tungsten "equivalents"... so far, they're typically about HALF.
 
After having a talk with Dracast tech support, their model names indicate wattage/10 (appx). Thus a 1000 series will draw 100 watts. This was a source of confusion for me as well.

Grant
 
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