Dracast LED Panels, old & new: thoughts and experience?

evolvnyc

evolvnyc

Well-known member
Hey Guys, so I have recently invested in 5x LED panels, 4 of which are Dracast brand. 3 of the 4 arrived with flicker issues and had to be exchanged. 1 I exchanged through the company directly and they were absolutely wonderful to deal with, upgraded me to the newer 2K model for free as a "sorry" for the trouble (a HUGE deal.) Sadly, I have just purchased the brand new led1000 silver series bi-color (folds up tiny and very light...) and I am on my second unit, and it too, has flicker issues. It's a brand new model so I suspect they are working out the kinks, but I compared it to my led500 bi-color panel (different line, less compact and more rugged) and the difference was amazing. The total range of the dimmer on the new 1k model: 2 and a half stops. The led500: 6 stops! This seems crazy to me and they have a stellar reputation, the lights have cri's of over 96, there is no color shift - but this flicker issue is driving me nuts. Just wondered if any other Dracast panel users have had similar issues? any tips or tricks or fixes? Did you abandon Dracast and find a fare better alternitive? Any thoughts appreciated!
 
evolvnyc said:
Hey Guys, so I have recently invested in 5x LED panels, 4 of which are Dracast brand. 3 of the 4 arrived with flicker issues and had to be exchanged. 1 I exchanged through the company directly and they were absolutely wonderful to deal with, upgraded me to the newer 2K model for free as a "sorry" for the trouble (a HUGE deal.) Sadly, I have just purchased the brand new led1000 silver series bi-color (folds up tiny and very light...) and I am on my second unit, and it too, has flicker issues. It's a brand new model so I suspect they are working out the kinks, but I compared it to my led500 bi-color panel (different line, less compact and more rugged) and the difference was amazing. The total range of the dimmer on the new 1k model: 2 and a half stops. The led500: 6 stops! This seems crazy to me and they have a stellar reputation, the lights have cri's of over 96, there is no color shift - but this flicker issue is driving me nuts. Just wondered if any other Dracast panel users have had similar issues? any tips or tricks or fixes? Did you abandon Dracast and find a fare better alternitive? Any thoughts appreciated!
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They are the blackmagic of LED panels - low prices, amazing specs, but QC is just not there. Not the first story i heard about them. My LED panel 500 did not flicker but it was not the CRI i expected.

Only worth it if your on an extreme budget and willing to deal with the sending back of units if it doesn't work.
 
Interesting comparison, I think you're right - they are wonderful to deal with and make everything right, but getting 2 lights in a row with flicker isues is a little crazy. the color and cri is the best I've seen - and they are durable and produce great light. For anyone who cares, I def think the "plus" line is best - the blue aluminum aluminum framed line of balanced and bi colors like LED500 and LED1000's. This new folding series has not had the kinks worked out yet and having to send back 2 is pretty annoying, but to be fair, they gave me a HUGE discount on a v-mount charger (almost free) for the trouble, so they make it right, you just have to be patient.

Another question for you guys tho - LED panel users: any tips or tricks for modifying or manipulating LED panels? So far my best moves have been: bouncing for fill inside, heavy toughspun provides a softbox beautiful wrap with perfect transition into shadows but takes your output down almost 2 stops. I've looked into softboxes for them, but they all look janky and I doubt they are any better than the spun or double opal. So any tips to share about how to make panels more dynamic? ANd to get rid of the microshadows?

Cheers guys!
 
evolvnyc said:
Interesting comparison, I think you're right - they are wonderful to deal with and make everything right, but getting 2 lights in a row with flicker isues is a little crazy. the color and cri is the best I've seen - and they are durable and produce great light. For anyone who cares, I def think the "plus" line is best - the blue aluminum aluminum framed line of balanced and bi colors like LED500 and LED1000's. This new folding series has not had the kinks worked out yet and having to send back 2 is pretty annoying, but to be fair, they gave me a HUGE discount on a v-mount charger (almost free) for the trouble, so they make it right, you just have to be patient.

Another question for you guys tho - LED panel users: any tips or tricks for modifying or manipulating LED panels? So far my best moves have been: bouncing for fill inside, heavy toughspun provides a softbox beautiful wrap with perfect transition into shadows but takes your output down almost 2 stops. I've looked into softboxes for them, but they all look janky and I doubt they are any better than the spun or double opal. So any tips to share about how to make panels more dynamic? ANd to get rid of the microshadows?

Cheers guys!
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I use a Dracast 500 and Aputure 1000 mainly - i bought an inflatable softbox(airbox) for the dracast, soften's the light enough so i can blast it directly on someone has a fill or backlight - but never as a key(not powerful or soft enough).

To get a quality ''movie like'' soft light, 1x1 panels are not enough power - unless you do closeups. Shooting them through diffusing material to make it bigger(bigger source = softer light), they lose too much power. It can be fine for ENG/talking head stuff, but to me its still a bit harsh. To remove the micro shadows - diffusing paper can help. And yes softbox are not so much better then diffusion, the only upside is that if your run n gunning fast, the softbox is more transportable.

I love LED but im still waiting for bigger and stronger LED so i can booklight it - im very excited about the softpanel 2x3 and 3x4 panels, as well as mole richardson 10kLED.
 
I picked up a couple of Dracast 2000's when they did a fire sale on the earlier model before the blue frame version. Just personal kit, I don't bring them out on work gigs because I don't find them robust enough to hand to a crew (the ratcheting yoke clamps are fidgety, and the bale block is too short and it doesn't seat properly on a lot of stands).

To solve the diffusion issue, I had my machinist whip up a couple of 1.5" deep u-shaped frames that slip into the mounting slot on the unit. A sheet of rigid diffusion slides into the front of the frame and the result is perfect. I use Makrolon Lumen XT diffusion, which is an industrial LED diffusion material that has a higher transmission value than any standard diffusion on the roll. It can only be bought in 8 ft sheets and is pricey, but of course you can make a lot of diffuser panels out of that! Admittedly I snaked mine from leftovers from the office set build we did on "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend", where we had 56 Kinos over a honeycomb pattern ceiling that needed to read uniform to the camera. It's very good stuff.
 
CharlesPapert said:
I picked up a couple of Dracast 2000's when they did a fire sale on the earlier model before the blue frame version. Just personal kit, I don't bring them out on work gigs because I don't find them robust enough to hand to a crew (the ratcheting yoke clamps are fidgety, and the bale block is too short and it doesn't seat properly on a lot of stands).

To solve the diffusion issue, I had my machinist whip up a couple of 1.5" deep u-shaped frames that slip into the mounting slot on the unit. A sheet of rigid diffusion slides into the front of the frame and the result is perfect. I use Makrolon Lumen XT diffusion, which is an industrial LED diffusion material that has a higher transmission value than any standard diffusion on the roll. It can only be bought in 8 ft sheets and is pricey, but of course you can make a lot of diffuser panels out of that! Admittedly I snaked mine from leftovers from the office set build we did on "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend", where we had 56 Kinos over a honeycomb pattern ceiling that needed to read uniform to the camera. It's very good stuff.
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your experience with dracast is similar to mine. Im on the fence about their big led fresnel lamps but i think i might just go big and buy a hive plasma 1000.

Your led diffusion thing sounds fascinating - do you have a picture ? I think i have an idea of what it looks like but i would like to see it because i have never seen anything like it(if it looks like what i think it looks like)
 
I have two of the blue frame 1000's bi-colors and use them on low budget stuff where I shoot & light and need to move fast (without help). I do love the quality of light and the fact they can run off V-lock batts for a decent amount of time and I can easily dial in color temp. But agree with Charles - not a big fan of the yoke clamps /bale. As for soft box type diffusion - I have this and it works pretty well with opal frost type diffusion in front sleeve ( but also think the price has gone way up since I bought it).
 
adaptation said:
Your led diffusion thing sounds fascinating - do you have a picture ? I think i have an idea of what it looks like but i would like to see it because i have never seen anything like it(if it looks like what i think it looks like)
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Here's a quickie of the results. The frame slides into the existing track, has an inner and outer right angle section bolted together to create a new track for the diff. Lying on it's back like this the diffusion sags a bit, but it's fine when the unit is upright.

DSC05149.jpg
DSC05152.jpg
 
nice - so it's basically frosted plexi? I was planning to get one cut to fit in the slot on my LED2K... great idea - any shots of the light in action? (how the quality of the light looks on set/subject?)
 
evolvnyc said:
nice - so it's basically frosted plexi? I was planning to get one cut to fit in the slot on my LED2K... great idea - any shots of the light in action? (how the quality of the light looks on set/subject?)
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Something like that, although it's a pretty high tech version. A typical frosted plexi that is dense enough to scatter the individual LED's enough at that little distance is also going to cut down the output considerably. The Makrolon is notably more efficient. I don't have any images to show the effect but it's what one would expect from a properly diffused LED panel of this size.

Here's a clip that at least shows the "waffle" ceiling lighting I designed for Crazy Ex-Girlfriend that incorporates the Makrolon, although this was shot after I left the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TEVDlZWzyA
 
True - and thanks for your thoughts everyone. I'm a big cheerleader of the Dracast panels I have and I now have the opportunity to get their 1K fresnel at a great price. Having experience with panels, any thoughts on the value/challenges/advantages of panels versus fresnels, assuming both are very good CRI and all have flicker free dimming? I started in stills and learned film lighting with HMI's and tungsten kits, so I'm still getting comfortable with the panels - but the dracasts so far (and also a Genaray 360 bi-color panel which I love), have fantastic output levels, color accuracy, portability, v-mount options (except the 2K), so just wondering what fresnels can offer that panels cant and vice-versa? (besides higher output...)? Thanks!
 
Weeeellll, when you transition from a single large point source to hundreds of little ones, it kind of rewrites the rule book.
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Perhaps, but - and this is to be read without snarkiness - I'd love to know why. Quantum electrodynamics aren't altered by source size or count.

My principal concern here is that people are bulls*%t-proofed against the attitude that likes to claim that new technology requires clever, expensive accessories. Often, this isn't the case. Light is light.

Are you sure a bit of good ol' Hampshire Frost won't do? I've found it will, quite often, but it depends on exactly what the configuration of the LED panel is.

P
 
Please do. Been wanting to try one of these out - but haven't had the right gig for it yet. If the light quality is as good as the 1x1 panels... I'd certainly be interested.
 
Phil Rhodes said:


Perhaps, but - and this is to be read without snarkiness - I'd love to know why. Quantum electrodynamics aren't altered by source size or count.

My principal concern here is that people are bulls*%t-proofed against the attitude that likes to claim that new technology requires clever, expensive accessories. Often, this isn't the case. Light is light.

Are you sure a bit of good ol' Hampshire Frost won't do? I've found it will, quite often, but it depends on exactly what the configuration of the LED panel is.

P
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A lot of it depends on how you work, what kind of work you do, the size of your crew etc. I personally don't think that bare LED arrays should be pointed towards talent as it is hard on the eyes. All those little points of light are tough to look into. And the shadow pattern is pretty undesirable. If neither of those are a concern, have at it.

If diffusion is preferred, you have various options. A softbox will do the trick, but is an extra object to set up and the overall unit gains in depth. You can use a diffusion frame or even diffusion on the roll hanging off a c-stand arm positioned a short distance away, but that's even more business to set up and requires more space. Then it becomes a matter of picking the right diffusion. I would consider Hampshire Frost to be too light to properly diffuse bare LED--it will take a little of the curse off but not really blend out the individual point sources. Opal is better but still thin for my taste. With 250 you'll start to cook, and 216 is even better. The give and take is that the thicker the diffusion, you will end up with a bigger and thus softer source, but you will lose output.

A pretty good compromise would be a softbox, which keeps the system all on one stand. But still requires a little time to set up and break down.

So then it brings me back around to the diffusion panel, which pretty much live on my heads full-time, unless I was using them as a wash against a flat surface (where shadows aren't an issue) and needed the extra output. At an inch or two off the surface of the LED's, it needs to be quite substantial to do the job. And to properly work in the slot, it needs to be rigid...diffusion gel is pretty useless as it will sag in a vertical unit.

Finally--the Makrolon really isn't expensive. At $240 for a 4'x8' sheet, that is enough material to make diffusers for 16 1x2 LED panels at $15 each. The problem of course is--who has 16 panels?!
 
I would consider Hampshire Frost to be too light to properly diffuse bare LED--it will take a little of the curse off but not really blend out the individual point sources.
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Depends how far away it is, really, doesn't it.
 
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