FS7: "DP decided he wants an F5 instead"

Hi Nirv

No cant say Ive had any problems with that.. the OLPF filter seems pretty good at minimizing it .. I guess if your unlucky and you get the shirt from hell in an interview, at certain focal lengths it would happen.. but Ive not had it on say brick work or anything else like that.. . I always have detail and aperture off too..
Ive used the F55 .. before I had my F5 and once when NHK supplied the camera,s.. and apart from the global shutter that would be good for alot of flash photo,s going off.. or really high speed objects.. for TV at least, LOG not RAW.. I couldn't see any difference what so ever.. color gamut too.. RAW maybe there is.. although both are 16 bit.. in fact I,d much rather have the 2000 ISO than the global shutter..
 
Donny 123 said:
Hi Nirv

No cant say Ive had any problems with that.. the OLPF filter seems pretty good at minimizing it .. I guess if your unlucky and you get the shirt from hell in an interview, at certain focal lengths it would happen.. but Ive not had it on say brick work or anything else like that.. . I always have detail and aperture off too..
Ive used the F55 .. before I had my F5 and once when NHK supplied the camera,s.. and apart from the global shutter that would be good for alot of flash photo,s going off.. or really high speed objects.. for TV at least, LOG not RAW.. I couldn't see any difference what so ever.. color gamut too.. RAW maybe there is.. although both are 16 bit.. in fact I,d much rather have the 2000 ISO than the global shutter..
Click to expand...

I'm reasonably convinced that the FS7 is missing some image processing that's in the F5/55 because I've seen a lot of moiré with the sharpest lens I have.

With the recent firmware updates and the new recorder the F5 is looking much better value for money than it ever has done. It looks like Sony are in no rush to replace this generation of camera and still able to inflict serious pain on Canon while doing so.
 
JPNola said:
Check out my EPK work on this First Look for the film Deepwater Horizon to be released in September:
Click to expand...

What an awesome thing to be around!

In terms of the camera some pretty dodgy highlights (not shooting log?) and clear magenta fringes on one of the BTS shots (1.56)

-

Donny

The magenta is not the same as moiree - it is some form of edge processing often at the edge of specular highlights..

Incedentally you can also see magenta edging with my ancient F5(+CP2) vs FS100 (+and ancient nikkor) test

Note the edge of the gaffa tape..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33167160/ouch.jpg

(not to mention worse shadow detail!)

S
 
Last edited:
The F5 now comes with the 4K internal "activated'" seems its has a price drop in some countries that had been bundling A7,s with it.. now they have just knocked $2,000 off the price.. to me the big difference is the internal 4K.. the global shutter and massive color gamut no display can ever show was never a reason to spend an extra $15,000.. but a lack of 4K would have seen me trading in the F5 very soon after buying it.. as I miss judged the rapid speed of 4K requests coming in.. and the "hack" that bought on the $1k 4K internal upgrade was great news and timing for me personally..but no hack and I doubt it ever would have happened ..

Even shooting HFR.. I often keep the camera in Full scan and haven't had moire.. if in doubt I,d go to center crop as recommended .. I dont have the 2K OLPF filter.. and it does seem a bit of a pain to swap over unless your shooting HFR all day..
 
Hi Sam

Yes I know the magenta isnt moire.. just saying off angle light sources can give this magenta "flare" and sometimes the dreaded grid effect.. still not really ever explained by Sony.. but apparently cured by replacing the ND filters.. but very cloak and dagger.. I have it like most F5/55 owners.. but we told by Sony Europe my camera was out of the serial number effected.. obviously not true.. and others with later SN where changed for free..
 
Donny 123 said:
Hi Sam

Yes I know the magenta isnt moire.. just saying off angle light sources can give this magenta "flare" and sometimes the dreaded grid effect.. still not really ever explained by Sony.. but apparently cured by replacing the ND filters.. but very cloak and dagger.. I have it like most F5/55 owners.. but we told by Sony Europe my camera was out of the serial number effected.. obviously not true.. and others with later SN where changed for free..
Click to expand...

Magenta ringing round high contrast areas is more likely found in Custom mode in my experience than in CineEI there has to be a very strong specular hit to get a similar effect and even then I'm not too sure whether that was the lens that caused some chrome hand rails to flare in the sun. CineEI is much better behave than Custom. Very plausible it could be the ND filters but Sony isn't going to recall the FS7s so we'd be SOL anyway.

I see magenta ringing in moiré and high contrast areas during 4K and HFR centre crop which have to be diffused. The internal downsize to HD seems to kill off a lot of these effects except HFR centre crop for obvious reasons.
 
Nirv - that has been my exact same experience as well... the magenta (or occasionally greenish) ringing in high contrast areas is definitely more likely in custom than CineEI. Had first assumed maybe too much saturation in a setting...and of course that makes it worse - but that's not the culprit.
 
This purple grid thing is a big deal with the F5/55.. its been on the Sony F5/55 forums for a couple of years now .. I dont know if the Fs7 has it too.. you actually see a very visible grid.. the bayer mosaic .. with just off axis strong light sources .. well documented and in some countries its been acknowledged and free "re placement" of ND filters has happened.. but pretty much only to those who perceived and actually sent in footage from their camera to show it.. otherwise Sony was up for a big re call of alot of camera,s.. mine was declined although does show it at times.. HD is less of a problem as in the down sample it gets lost.. but 4K its a problem.. in all modes.. its different from magenta fringe artifacts ..
 
markfpv said:
I've read about the grid issue on the 5 / 55... but have never seen it on my 7...
Click to expand...

+1, luckily I've never seen it either. Given I use the lenses that I do I have been expecting it but so far nada.

I'm sure this is going to be a complex edge case where a couple of critical variables are needed to be in alignment to produce the effect and 90% of users never see it. It would be very difficult to pin down the exact repeatable conditions that causes the grid artefact using forum anecdotes.
 
Donny 123 said:
Agreed.. you cant give a C300 away now.. lack of 4K was always going to kill it.. besides the totally crap design.. then they do the same again ! stick to lenses and DSLR,s Canon.. no clue how to make 35mm sensor video camera,s.. the Fs7 is the best bang for the buck thats for sure.. but there have been cuts compared to the F5 to get it there.. nothing wrong with that.. and it has been a big bonus for F5 owners thats for sure..
Click to expand...
Just for the record, C300s are still selling (just sent some to Hawaii for a new show) and the MK IIs have been quite steady in sales.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
markfpv said:
I've read about the grid issue on the 5 / 55... but have never seen it on my 7...
Click to expand...

I've seen it a few times on my FS700 when I had it, and maybe once or twice on the FS7 (That's out of countless shots).

I'm wondering if it has something to do with how the software interpolates the footage. Because the few times I've had it, it seems like it was in Premiere and when I brought it in After Effects for the final grade, the grid was gone. Also, I need to remember when viewing footage in half-res, it was then, then switch to full-res it went away (but that could be just my bad memory).

Anyways, it's very rare when it happens.
 
i've gotten the grid effect on one shot over the 2 years. We were trying to get some flares with the sun in the horizon and in one shot for a few frames there was a grid when the light hit at a certain angle. I am wondering if it was due to the full frame glass letting in a larger circle of light which I assume allows light to hit the sensor at more acute angles. I've never encountered it since.
 
Jim Martin said:
Just for the record, C300s are still selling (just sent some to Hawaii for a new show) and the MK IIs have been quite steady in sales.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
Click to expand...

Well they have dropped the price of both hugely .. and have never put out any sales figures for the Mk11.. the fact they dropped the price of the II so quickly I think would seem to imply low sales.. C300 was only popular as the first 50 Mbps 35mm sensor camera.. Sony blow it with the F3 only being 35 internal.. the picture of the C300 is of course totally fine.. but really the ergonomics is a total disaster.. and then to do it twice.. as Wilde would say .. is careless..
 
I love the serpentine course this thread has taken.

Much good discussion here on several topics.

That BTS footage in that linked video is MPEG HD422. Custom, if memory serves. I don't recall why we didn't go with something more sophisticated. May have had something to do with fast workflow. Or media storage space. ( I shot 60+ days of BTS on that film ) Or at the time I didn't know any better. ( Kinda still don't. Yet, to my constant amazement, I still keep getting jobs. :cheesy: )
 
Nirv said:
+1, luckily I've never seen it either. Given I use the lenses that I do I have been expecting it but so far nada.

I'm sure this is going to be a complex edge case where a couple of critical variables are needed to be in alignment to produce the effect and 90% of users never see it. It would be very difficult to pin down the exact repeatable conditions that causes the grid artefact using forum anecdotes.
Click to expand...

On the F5/55 its pretty easy to replicate it.. but a tiny shift of position will get rid of it.. it does seem to be some reflection/refraction from the filter wheel internally.. those that have the replacement report it fixes the issue.. and later models have the newer filter assembly.. presumably the Fs7 had the new improved ones from the start.. something that should have been black was shiny.. that simple I think..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top