FS7: "DP decided he wants an F5 instead"

JPNola

JPNola

Veteran
I was recently entertaining an inquiry for myself as camera op along with my Fs7 and then I received the call, after they begged me for a rock bottom rate on the Fs7, informing me that the DP on the project wants to seek out an F5 instead of an Fs7.

What might be a reason to want an F5 over an Fs7?

The FZ ( positive lock type ) mount would be one, I suppose. But what other possible motivations? The 16-bit Raw of the F5 vs the 12-bit Raw of the Fs7? ProRes 444 vs ProRes 422? Or maybe something to do with form factor- the better weight distribution of the F5 when coupled with external recorder and the convenience of the side display?




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You may get a kick out of this: A client from Europe- one who will remain unnamed to protect them from possible embarrassment - informed me that they need a Camera package ( camera, camera batteries, camera lenses, on-board camera light, media cards, & tripod ), field monitor, lights, stingers, a few C-stands, and audio package consisting of a wireless mic + shotgun mic w/boom...and they have a budget towards that gear rental of $200 per day. And they want me to operate 1-man band. And then requested an F5 instead of an Fs7. For the same $200 total rental rate already offered.

I blame the Canon 5D for this sort of thing. Oh, and the hipster millennials. Them and their damn 5D's. :grin:
 
JPNola said:
I was recently entertaining an inquiry for myself as camera op along with my Fs7 and then I received the call, after they begged me for a rock bottom rate on the Fs7, informing me that the DP on the project wants to seek out an F5 instead of an Fs7.

What might be a reason to want an F5 over an Fs7?

The FZ ( positive lock type ) mount would be one, I suppose. But what other possible motivations? The 16-bit Raw of the F5 vs the 12-bit Raw of the Fs7? ProRes 444 vs ProRes 422? Or maybe something to do with form factor- the better weight distribution of the F5 when coupled with external recorder and the convenience of the side display?




____________


You may get a kick out of this: A client from Europe- one who will remain unnamed to protect them from possible embarrassment - informed me that they need a Camera package ( camera, camera batteries, camera lenses, on-board camera light, media cards, & tripod ), field monitor, lights, stingers, a few C-stands, and audio package consisting of a wireless mic + shotgun mic w/boom...and they have a budget towards that gear rental of $200 per day. And they want me to operate 1-man band. And then requested an F5 instead of an Fs7. For the same $200 total rental rate already offered.

I blame the Canon 5D for this sort of thing. Oh, and the hipster millennials. Them and their damn 5D's. :grin:
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That right there.......is a client you are better off not having! Those are usually the worst,
they want unrealistic prices and then expect unrealistic things from you as a 1-man band.
 
JPNola said:
...

What might be a reason to want an F5 over an Fs7?

....
Click to expand...

Rather the question is, why would they tell you that the DP wants an F5? Perhaps to pressure you to a lower rate. If the DP really wants an F5, then why are they asking you for a lower price?
 
I just had a contact from someone..

'We'd like this this this and this on FS7'

'Well fantastic, these are my standard rates and these are the various other things you wanted to hire'

'I'm afraid our budget is only 40% of the standard rate let alone the additional gear we need'

At which point a gentle version of 'when you were doing the budget did you not think to find out how much these things cost?' is all that is left for me.

It's one thing to do a mate a favour but before a person has said anything at all about the particular job or me as a shooter to be trying to lowball someone to a fraction of their day rate tends to make those the clients I don't want to go near.

In fact I think the last one wound me up because they wrote 'we only have xyz in the budget?' with the question mark at the end, as though I was supposed to jump in and answer the imaginary please do this for next to nothing question.

With those buggers I did the 'I completely understand about your budgets. Do let me know if there's any I can help with down the line.'.
 
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It could just be the DP is used to working with an F5.. the side LCD is a convenience .. and the EVF, in the Sony set up, is not great.. (losing level etc).. on the Fs7.. but the biggest difference I,d think would be the PL mount..
 
To be honest the F5 is a better camera for shooting in controlled environments with a crew. Still nothing to do with them trying to use it as leverage on deal on an FS7
 
Ben Scott said:
In fact I think the last one wound me up because they wrote 'we only have xyz in the budget?' with the question mark at the end, as though I was supposed to jump in and answer the imaginary please do this for next to nothing question.

With those buggers I did the 'I completely understand about your budgets. Do let me know if there's any I can help with down the line.'.
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Ha, I've got that one before too.......I really wanted to write them back 'Good luck with that?' with the question
mark at the end. I'd never actually do that, it's always best to be nice and give them something like:

"I completely understand that you have a budget that I can't seem to meet. I wish you the best on
your project.'
 
Mine are more along the lines of polite versions of 'well when you get your budget sorted I'll be here but you have my rates so don't bother me before then'
 
A customer who is not willing to pay what he wishes to have is not a customer. Wish him all the best!
 
Ben Scott said:
To be honest the F5 is a better camera for shooting in controlled environments with a crew. Still nothing to do with them trying to use it as leverage on deal on an FS7
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Totally agree.. I work only with my own camera.. (F5/CN7).. people playing games with rates are not people you want to work with anyway.. wish them luck or just dont reply.. dont waste your time.. either they pay your rate,or you dont work with A holes.. perfect.. no other "trade" puts up with this ****..
 
JPNola said:
I blame the Canon 5D for this sort of thing. Oh, and the hipster millennials. Them and their damn 5D's. :grin:
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LOL-I'm a hipster boomer with an F5 and blame it on gen x,y and z and their Fs7's.

But seriously, here's other things I look at besides rate...

Will it mean lead to more of that type of work down the road?
Is it interesting/fun/different?
Will it look good on my reel or credits?

Sometimes I'll suck it up and take a bad rate for a one-off client if I like the gig. Doesn't happen often, but it happens, especially if I'm slow.
 
alaskacameradude said:
That right there.......is a client you are better off not having! Those are usually the worst,
they want unrealistic prices and then expect unrealistic things from you as a 1-man band.
Click to expand...
Agree with this 100%! The client who thinks they know what camera you should be using (and how much crew you'll need) but then can't afford or won't pay even close to a decent rate for it - is definitely one to be very wary of.
 
What I find intresting is that they never question the airfare, the cab ride, the car rental, the hotel room rate etc. but your rate is somehow open to 50% or more reduction.

The only times I will reduce my rate is in a spec pitch reel scenario with a long term client who are usually very happy with 20% off. The whole working for credit/might lead to more is for trustafarians and leads usually to more free work: the whole "independent film" pastime in NYC works like that.
 
Yeah thats what i mean.. there was a very funny video going around about these same people asking for discounts /rate cuts etc in various other scenarios .. restaurant , hair cut.. etc no other businesses work like ours !.. and yes that is a 100% true.. if you work for free.. the same people will never pay you.. but they will tell all their producers friends..
 
DP Patrick O Sullivan made the point on his podcast that you do the job for one of three things - the money, the relationship or the career. Any time you get two of three you're laughing.

There are plenty of times when it is worthwhile doing a deal or giving a discount. A supposedly professional Producer telling you they only have half what it costs in their budget is not one of them. I bet they managed to have budgeted for the full Producer fee!
 
Donny 123 said:
Yeah thats what i mean.. there was a very funny video going around about these same people asking for discounts /rate cuts etc in various other scenarios .. restaurant , hair cut.. etc no other businesses work like ours !.. and yes that is a 100% true.. if you work for free.. the same people will never pay you.. but they will tell all their producers friends..
Click to expand...


Is this the one you were talking about?


It was created by a local agency here in Toronto. It really is ridiculous what our industry tolerates.
 
icarusfilm said:
What I find intresting is that they never question the airfare, the cab ride, the car rental, the hotel room rate etc. but your rate is somehow open to 50% or more reduction.
Click to expand...

I had a job where the booker / coordinator pleaded with me to come down $50 on my day rate. She explained that the budget was really, really tight on this one. It was a two-day job. I came down $50 on my rate. Saved them a hundred bucks out of their tight budget. What a guy. A real team player who is willing to be flexible.

The night before the shoot I receive a call sheet. I am to meet the Director, Producer, and assorted other crew members- all of whom were flown in from London- at their hotel. They are all staying at the Ritz Carlton.




Ever notice that the people they hire to book crew are youngish females with really cute voices? It's hardly ever a dude. Nearly always a cute-sounding young chick who is almost flirty with you on the phone.
 
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