GH3 Doubting to invest in M43's... Please think with me.

S

Stab

Well-known member
At the moment I do most of my shoots with my Canon 60D and / or my cameraman's 5D markII.

The GH2 already had a better way to create the final image than our camera's and now it seems that the GH3 delivers the final blow to the Canon DSLR's. It's enough, I want full HD. In our last project we made some wide shots out of a car while driving through the city and most shots are covered in moiré. I can't stand it anymore.

So now I am thinking about switching over to the GH3 and invest in decent lenses and sell my 60D+lenses. But isnt the M43 system actually an inferior system? Yes, at the moment they have the best image processing to get the most detailed picture out of the sensors, but soon this might change.

In 1 or 2 years Canon (or someone else) will finally make a DSLR that shoots real HD and then we have an actual S35 or full frame sensor. Or BlackMagic releases there S35 version.
These things will happen, and I will be stuck with small M43 lenses that can't fit to any bigger sensor again.

In short: At the moment, the Panasonic M43's system has the best images but this is due to the processing within the camera and despite the smaller sensor. Investing now in M43 lenses might not be a good idea because better S35 / full frame sensor camera's in this price range will be released within the next 1-2 years.

How do you guys see this?
 
* Scratches head.....

Professional Movies that have been released have been shot on much much smaller sensor cameras. 16mm to be exact. Also all of your Canon lenses can be adapted to the Panasonic GH cameras...... S35, FF etc. does not make it better than the other. I honestly have no idea why in the world people think this?

Truth is stop worrying about tomorrow and live today. That 60d and Mark II is 4 year old technology, the GH3 is NEW technology...... BMCC is NEW technology.... Just relax and enjoy life
 
Fresno Bob said:
You don't need to invest in lenses, or sell lenses.
You can adapt all your lenses to the GH2 / GH3.
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None of our lenses have manual aperture control... I've heard bad stories about adapters with their own aperture blades in them. What else can be done?
 
there are lots of adapters that will give you aperture control. the really good ones are $200-$300 or so. i had the rayqual to nikon for my GH2 rig and it worked great.

and yeah. for me, glass is the downfall of my enthusiasm for m4/3. of the 20-30 available native lenses there are probably 4 that i dont absolutely hate the look of. that may eventually change or it may not. but adapting other lenses changes that landscape dramatically. of course you'll lose IS and AI and all other "modern" functionality of the lens, but unless youre a photojournalist, you probably dont live and die by that anyway.
 
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I totally understand where you're coming from. Reason why I decided to invest in a set of Zeiss CP.2 PL mount. It will fit and cover any cinema camera out there. S35, M4/3 no problem. I realize it's an expensive investment but I know they are probably the last lenses I will get till and if the day we get IMAX sized sensors come. I figured I will buy several cameras before I need to buy another lens.

Having said that, I would absolutely avoid any lenses that would rely on an adapter to control aperture. You want a real aperture on the lens. The great thing about the M4/3 system is that it will take pretty much any lens out there. Well, as long it's made for a sensor or film plane equal or larger to M4/3. So if you want to go with the GH3, which is definitely much better than the Canons IMO and even the GH2 is, and you don't feel like investing in M4/3 lenses, and PL lenses are out of your budget, I think manual Nikon lenses are your best bet. Very inexpensive, good resale value and capable of great images.
 
As Barry has said, buy what you need now and use it to it's fullest. Personally I can see the point of buying full-sized and that's great, however when you don't consider the Micro Four thirds then you'll miss out on the great lenses at cheaper prices. The Voigtlander and the SLRmagic are amazing. Most of the big boy lens companies are also getting onboard and producing lenses for the system. I think you'll have 5 years or more before this platform is obsolete, and before then you can sell the lenses and retain most of your investment.

I also have been buying a variety of things. The Rokinon CINE lenses are a real steal, too.
 
So my best bet would be to sell my stuff, buy some (cheaper) lenses from Nikon / Olympus /whatever with manual aperture control and a cheap adapter to be able to mount them on the GH3?
 
Stab said:
So my best bet would be to sell my stuff, buy some (cheaper) lenses from Nikon / Olympus /whatever with manual aperture control and a cheap adapter to be able to mount them on the GH3?
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Be helpful to know what lenses you have already first.

To echo Justyn, the Voigtlanders are amazing lenses (haven't played with an SLRmagic yet). I think your best bet will be to stay away from the Lumix lenses for now. If you get m4/3, go for ones with manual control (and no "focus-by-wire" systems that use electronics for that). That way you can use them on the m4/3 BMCC that's coming out (it is a dumb mount so no Lumix lenses will work on it anyway).

Zeiss, ideally CP.2 but otherwise ZF.2 if you can afford them. Outside of that, manual control Nikons are the best as the Canon FDs, while great lenses, won't ever mount on a Canon outside of using a glass adapter, so if you ever found yourself going back to Canon at some point, you wouldn't be able to use them.

Here's a sample I did earlier in the year when I got my GH2 with some of those:

 
Stab said:
At the moment I do most of my shoots with my Canon 60D and / or my cameraman's 5D markII.

The GH2 already had a better way to create the final image than our camera's and now it seems that the GH3 delivers the final blow to the Canon DSLR's. It's enough, I want full HD. In our last project we made some wide shots out of a car while driving through the city and most shots are covered in moiré. I can't stand it anymore.

So now I am thinking about switching over to the GH3 and invest in decent lenses and sell my 60D+lenses. But isnt the M43 system actually an inferior system? Yes, at the moment they have the best image processing to get the most detailed picture out of the sensors, but soon this might change.

In 1 or 2 years Canon (or someone else) will finally make a DSLR that shoots real HD and then we have an actual S35 or full frame sensor. Or BlackMagic releases there S35 version.
These things will happen, and I will be stuck with small M43 lenses that can't fit to any bigger sensor again.

In short: At the moment, the Panasonic M43's system has the best images but this is due to the processing within the camera and despite the smaller sensor. Investing now in M43 lenses might not be a good idea because better S35 / full frame sensor camera's in this price range will be released within the next 1-2 years.

How do you guys see this?
Click to expand...

I don't know if you've seen it or not, but the GH3 has a bit of a moire issue of it's own- the GH2 doesn't really
http://vimeo.com/54698768
It might not be as bad as in this clip (settings,lenses,other variables could get better results) but early owners are saying it is worse than with the GH2- they still like the GH3 better overall. But if moire is something you are basing your choice on, thought you should be aware

Also...one other option available. The t3i- and the 3x zoom mode at ONLY the 3x setting. It's using a smaller portion of the sensor. This setting and an ultrawide can be used for those difficult street shots, and a normal lens plus 3x zoom for other problematic patterns. All else, just use the regular video mode. The moire/aliasing is GREATLY reduced. Not sure why more people aren't on to this. I think most just dismiss it as a gimmick. Check these videos, it is NOT a gimmick.

http://vimeo.com/35111205
http://vimeo.com/35445053
 
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I sold my 7D for the GH3. From me i want to make sure i can have lens for almost any system (full frame nikon & canon, M4/3) For me i don't want to spend 200 - 300 dollar on 1 adaptor because i don't have good EF glass.

i will be selling my 18-135 canon lens for the 20mm 1.7
I had a canon mount sigma 30mm F1.4, i will be trading that in for a slr magic 12mm T1.6
Ziess ZF.2 50mm F1.4
Nikkor 35-70mm 2.8

Also i use a nikon ED AF-S 70-200mm 2.8G or with any other nikon lens without manual aperture with the "cheap" adaptors and they work fine.

I know i will have to invest in about 2-3 lens for the M4/3 becasue of AF and O.I.S, the 20mm 1.7 for AF and the 14-140 for AF & O.I.S. and the SLR 12mm 1.6 for speed & wide FOV.

Voigtlanders are awesome but expensive, i don't want to spend over a thousand bucks just for the M4/3 system
 
mrlittleteich@gmail.com said:
Voigtlanders are awesome but expensive, i don't want to spend over a thousand bucks just for the M4/3 system
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The Voigtlanders are such nice lenses though that I'm about to go against my own better judgement and invest in at least the 17mm. It will work on the BMCC m4/3, so I may have to switch my pre-order over to that if I end up getting it.

I realize that it won't mount on anything larger, but I just shot a music video primarily using the 25mm and it looked utterly amazing with that lens. The 17mm will be better for the GH3/BMCC (it will probably be a tad too wide on the GH2, but I will deal with that).
 
I sold my Canon 5D, 7D, 70-200 2.8L, 24-70 2.8L, 17-40 4 L, and 50 1.4 to pay for m4/3 gear and do not regret it one bit. The GH3 is truly the one camera that does it all.

My first suggestion to the OP is to hang on to the Canon equipment and add a GH2 (now at a low price) and see if you like it. On my GH2 I use the gentle "Vanilla" hack which is completely invisible, but adds a nice boost in bitrate. A simple adaptor will allow the use of of the manual lenses by Nikon, Canon as previously mentioned. These can be purchased for very little money. My experience with m4/3 adapted EF lenses was not so good. No aperture control and the manual focussing on EF lenses is nothing like the smooth focussing rings on legacy lenses. In my case, Canon FD glass has been a joy to use. My favorite is the infamous radio active FD 35mm f2.0 from 1971. The options for lens selection on m4/3 are staggering. In order to shoot wide angle though you WILL have to invest in native m4/3 glass.

The only drawback to the GH2 compared to your Canon bodies is it's audio circuitry. Currently there is no way to disable the AGC, and the 2.5mm jack is a pain. Glad to say this has been fixed on the GH3, which brings me to my second suggestion - order your GH3.

I do not work for Panasonic!
 
The Micro 4/3 format isn't going away any time soon, so it will continue to get better just like the other formats do.

As for Canon producing a better camera, they already have, it's the Canon C100 and costs $6,500. If I could afford it, I would switch to the C100 immediately, but for now I am very happy with my GH2 cameras.

BTW, I used to own a Canon 60D and a bunch of Canon prime lenses, and after owning the GH2 for one month I sold ALL of my Canon gear. ( Canon 60D was better for stills, GH2 far better for video work )
 
"I know i will have to invest in about 2-3 lens for the M4/3 becasue of AF and O.I.S, the 20mm 1.7 for AF and the 14-140 for AF & O.I.S. and the SLR 12mm 1.6 for speed & wide FOV."

The slow AF on the 20mm 1.7 will dissapoint you. It's a dandy little lens aside from that. The 25mm 1.4 Lumix-Leica, or the soon to be 17mm 1.8(?) from Olympus might be worth a look.
 
If you have Canon L lenses keep them. Works with BMCC and Canon C series. If you have lesser Canon lenses then you could sell them and buy them back used if you need EF mounts again in a couple of years. Things change so fast now that even in a year everything gets turned upside down.
Depending on what you shoot primarily will answer what type of lenses you need. cine glass is expensive for a reason. If you need the functions then CP.2 are a versatile choice since the mount can be changed.
I like Lumix lenses and have several. It serves a purpose that I need. Small and light. auto focus is fast when you need it and for the most part very sharp.
I will recommend whatever you buy purchase fast lenses and constant aperture zooms. It's worth it and you keep them a lot longer than the camera they attached to.
 
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Ed Jeffersen said:
The only drawback to the GH2 compared to your Canon bodies is it's audio circuitry. Currently there is no way to disable the AGC, and the 2.5mm jack is a pain
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...The 2.5mm jack is definitely a pain, but the GH2 is BETTER than most Canon bodies when it comes to audio.

- The GH2 has an audio noise floor of -63 dB ( same as my HMC-150 camera ), where most Canon DSLRs are about 10 dB noisier than this.

- The GH2 AGC works more like a limiter, so set the GH2 gain to it's lowest setting and feed your GH2 a strong audio signal, and you can get very good results.

Sample video I shot last January with the audio recorded directly into my GH2 camera: Interview with Ronnie Burkett
 
J.F.R. said:
* Scratches head.....

... Mark II is 4 year old technology, the GH3 is NEW technology...... BMCC is NEW technology.... Just relax and enjoy life
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The 5D3 is newer technology too. And soon it will output 422 to a recorder.

I don't understand why most everyone focuses on a camera that's discontinued, & ignores it's replacement. I shot a commercial gig with mine because it was easier to rig for this one shot, & it worked well.

If it had a built-in EVF I might have rethought purchasing the GH3, but as is the Panasonic makes a better companion camera.
 
I happen to own 3 M4/3 cameras, but only own 1 native M4/3 lens. The point being, rather than investing in glass which only covers a M4/3 sensor, I have invested in glass which I can pretty much use on any camera.
 
And there is no 'quality loss' when mounting a aps-c / full frame Nikon lens with an adapter on a M43 sensor?
 
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