"Don't Look"
- Thread starter jojopop
- Start date
Keystoned
Well-known member
Danielleus said:
Going for clarity here. It is not my intention to go on a rant of any kind. But I talk too much by nature so it may sound that way. Just know that I'm not pissed off or anything - just having a discussion.
Danielleus said:
Not exactly. I made a distinction of when the style really worked for me and when it worked for me less. Might be worth considering why in each instance rather than dismissing my entire comment as just not getting it or buying it. I'm talking about using it to tell a story or not, moment to moment, not whether or not it just makes a general kind of sense or if you kind of buy it or you don't. My point was that the style in the opening established the surveillance thing and then seemed to keep doing it longer than necessary - a point wholly unconnected to whether I bought it or not.
Is all of the style of a whole? Yes. Is it germane to the subject matter? Yes. If the style were a piece of music would the surveillance motif be consistent and well developed throughout? Yes. Do I feel like someone just layed a surveillance style on a film for no good reason? No.
My point is in the deciphering scenes that the amount of cuts and inserts and glitches tells an active story of someone solving a puzzle and it has a shape to it. It becomes more intense and builds to an "aha!" ... the fleeting cuts mimic the way our eyes work when looking quickly for information. Here you have style which is not only germane to the subject matter but mirrors the narrative and internal state of the character.
in the opening we start on a watch which comes in and out of focus. Great. the character is disoriented, out of sorts. That's story. That's necessary information. That pulls me into the world of the film by giving me new or necessary information, rather than pushing me out by highlighting the story telling apparatus. Then the whole screen flips and blips, not sure why exactly at this point. Ok maybe someone is watching him and the surveillance gear is buggy. Got it. Then we see what he sees in the paper ... words pop out with sound effects. Great. NEW information and we are seeing it through his eyes as he would see it. This guy sees messages in the newspaper. Cool. Then we get a series of shots of the watchers and they are all blippy and glippy again. Ok Got it. There is a surveillance or some kind of motif going on. Not new information. And not sure how this is tied to his perspective. We saw him as blippy and glippy ... but does he see others as blippy and glippy, or are they all being watched? Because it is less clear and we have already seen it, it feels like style for style's sake. To be clearer this time - not EVERYTHING - just the blippy glippy surveillance shots that go on past us getting the idea that there is some kind of surveillance going on here. Similarly, if the scene made it's point in dialogue and then wet on to explain itself further, it would be dialogue for dialogue's sake. Wouldn't mean that the dialogue was bad, or that I didn't buy the dialogue as a whole throughout the movie, only that it was no longer serving the story or moving things forward, but that it just was there for the sake of being there.
Also whose perspective is it, what's the point of view? The watch and the deciphering scenes and the words appearing in the newspaper are all clearly HIS point of view. When he sees the spies and it's glitchy, that makes sense. But when we see an objective wide shot of him and that's also glitchy ... then again what's the point of view ... who's point of view is it? How are we being positioned as an audience to ge into this world. Especially effective point of view in the deciphering scenes because he is pretty frantic and so is the style. At the top, the glitches when he is looking at others do not seem connected to him. If they are not meant to be and we are meant to be seeing him from the perspective of the spies as we do at the end in the great panning shot with all of the radio noise etc. Then why is it also glitchy when we are shown what he sees?
I don't think the style sux, I don't not buy it. I think it is GREAT when its really used as a window into the character's psyche. When it's not doing that, I think it is sort of OK and pushes me out because I notice it rather than having it draw me into the story.
I think the piece makes extremely sophisticated use of style and ok use of style and there is reason to my rhyme. Am I right? Maybe not. But it doesn't boil down to you either buy the style or you don't for me. That implies that the filmmaker is just laying it on because it's cool and maybe it works and maybe it doesn't. Hopefully it is actually being thought about in service of a story. If so, then it's worth questioning and looking at the highly successful moments and the just OK moments.
Thanks.
Last edited:
Wow, Keystoned, thanks for the essay. I'm glad the film stirred up some kind of discussion!
Regarding the style -- As the filmmaker, I can try to justify it with what my intentions were... for the most part you nailed exactly what I was going for. I was trying to make a conscious decision not to inject too much of the surveillance style... personally, I think it works, but I'm biased.
The idea was to place the viewer in his state of paranoia -- mostly we have his point of view and the way he sees the world: twisted, scared. This changes in the apartment because he feels safer, more secure, hence no crazy style when he looks outside the window. Plus that's way too much style for a 6 min short.
When he takes off running (park & after alley) I tried to throw in elements of scan lines, in an effort to distinguish between his point of view and when he thinks the "watchers," are watching. I tried to make it subtle, but went all out with the ending (the real "watchers"). It may not have been apparent enough but win some, lose some.
But, hey, thanks for the props and the great discussion -- I'm glad you enjoyed the film!
Regarding the style -- As the filmmaker, I can try to justify it with what my intentions were... for the most part you nailed exactly what I was going for. I was trying to make a conscious decision not to inject too much of the surveillance style... personally, I think it works, but I'm biased.
The idea was to place the viewer in his state of paranoia -- mostly we have his point of view and the way he sees the world: twisted, scared. This changes in the apartment because he feels safer, more secure, hence no crazy style when he looks outside the window. Plus that's way too much style for a 6 min short.
When he takes off running (park & after alley) I tried to throw in elements of scan lines, in an effort to distinguish between his point of view and when he thinks the "watchers," are watching. I tried to make it subtle, but went all out with the ending (the real "watchers"). It may not have been apparent enough but win some, lose some.
But, hey, thanks for the props and the great discussion -- I'm glad you enjoyed the film!
jamesh
Well-known member
This is one of the films which i thought the story was actually better than how it looked. It reminded me a bit of Pi which is one of my favourite movies. The paranoia felt quite real and made the film felt quite tense thoughout.
I wasn't keen on the way it was filmed though. It was very dark throughout and sometimes hard to distinguish what was going on. Also the scene in the park looked a bit overexposed to me.
Good entry though, well done.
I wasn't keen on the way it was filmed though. It was very dark throughout and sometimes hard to distinguish what was going on. Also the scene in the park looked a bit overexposed to me.
Good entry though, well done.
Darkline
Veteran
This was great.
It could actually be my favourite if it wasnt for me feeling a little confused at the end. Although he mis-interpreted the message it wasnt clear to me how this new message would have helped any. It seemed the same thing to me - maybe im missing something.
However - this has real character. I was drawn in. The style was very atmospheric and didnt feel like style for style's sake.
In a short film I often look for the way a director constructs his material and you hit it perfect here. Out of all of the ones I have sene so far I'd say this had the most stylisitc vision that felt intergal to the story.
Sure it was too dark at the end. But I cant fault a director through lack of a few lights! Theres a lot of people making films on limited resources and you can forgive that if the construction/atmosphere and style is professional - here it was. well done.
It could actually be my favourite if it wasnt for me feeling a little confused at the end. Although he mis-interpreted the message it wasnt clear to me how this new message would have helped any. It seemed the same thing to me - maybe im missing something.
However - this has real character. I was drawn in. The style was very atmospheric and didnt feel like style for style's sake.
In a short film I often look for the way a director constructs his material and you hit it perfect here. Out of all of the ones I have sene so far I'd say this had the most stylisitc vision that felt intergal to the story.
Sure it was too dark at the end. But I cant fault a director through lack of a few lights! Theres a lot of people making films on limited resources and you can forgive that if the construction/atmosphere and style is professional - here it was. well done.
Michael_Petro
Veteran
man thanks now I'm all paranoid and stuff... i swear theres a dude outside my house ... wait thats a dog in my trash....
was this the best looking film? nope.. BUT it was very effective in that I felt for this guy i was even sad when he pulled the trigger.. so it was a good film.. so there
was this the best looking film? nope.. BUT it was very effective in that I felt for this guy i was even sad when he pulled the trigger.. so it was a good film.. so there
Shawn Philip Nelson
Veteran
uhm, okay dude, I'm lost here. I have no idea what the story is about. It looked cool, sound quality was good. I dig the idea of spy messages in spam, but you lost me on the plot.
Nice film. Kept me engaged the whole time, and was shot well. I may steal your ideas for the computer screen graphics. Very nice. I hope a DVD is made of the fest because I feel some of your darker scenes were victims of compression and the detail didn't come out as well. I'd like to see this in a bigger size.
Good work. Hope to see you in the next fest.
Good work. Hope to see you in the next fest.
Hey all,
Thanks for the compliments. I'll try to address some plot issues you guys had:
Everything depicted in the movie -- the "spies" in the park, the messages from the email -- are what he perceives and wants to see. In reality there is no hidden message in his spam/newspapers. He sees what he wants to. Therefore, the message at the very end is him creating a message to fit the situation he's in.
The "watchers are out there" was meant to say that they're near, watching again, whereas the "watchers are here" is meant to imply that the watchers are here now and are ready to make their move.
Well, I hope that clears things up a little. Thanks again for the kind words!
Thanks for the compliments. I'll try to address some plot issues you guys had:
Darkline said:
In the reality of this world, something/someone is watching our main character. However, he can't figure out who/what/why. Ultimately, he becomes so entrenched in this paranoia, he starts seeing things everywhere.shawneous said:
Everything depicted in the movie -- the "spies" in the park, the messages from the email -- are what he perceives and wants to see. In reality there is no hidden message in his spam/newspapers. He sees what he wants to. Therefore, the message at the very end is him creating a message to fit the situation he's in.
The "watchers are out there" was meant to say that they're near, watching again, whereas the "watchers are here" is meant to imply that the watchers are here now and are ready to make their move.
Well, I hope that clears things up a little. Thanks again for the kind words!
Beat Takeshi
Two-Hip Shakur
I liked the look of this and liked the static stuff. What did you use for that?
I did get a little bored with the VO and it seemed to move slow till the time where the guy tries to rob him. That scene was well done I thought, well from there on in it kept me more engaged. I didn't think the message meant anything really that different because he couldn't really do anything it seemed. I liked the messages on the news paper and would have liked to have seen how he deciphers it. All the shots were well done and I liked the CC also.
I did get a little bored with the VO and it seemed to move slow till the time where the guy tries to rob him. That scene was well done I thought, well from there on in it kept me more engaged. I didn't think the message meant anything really that different because he couldn't really do anything it seemed. I liked the messages on the news paper and would have liked to have seen how he deciphers it. All the shots were well done and I liked the CC also.
Karl151k
Well-known member
This one had a really nice visual style to it. I liked the "Meet in park" shot. Also, the hiding of the correspondence in various forms was very well done and showed a lot of foresight in the production design. It reminded me of a Beautiful Mind a tiny bit, but that's not such a bad thing. Also, the practical effect with the gunshot was good as well.
There was a weird part of the movie that bothered me a little. Around 1:40, a character exits frame and then the camera zooms in on the blank brick wall. What was the point of letting that shot linger so long after the character had left? As others have mentioned, the narration got on my nerves after a few minutes. There must be more effective ways to get the plot moving. Lighting-wise, there always seemed to be ample rim lighting but never enough fill. Hence, a lot of the characters were well defined against the background, but I couldn't see their faces well enough.
Over all, I think this is a good movie and I'll watch it again when I'm not so jaded from having watched 35 other spy movies. Thanks for contributing to the fest!
There was a weird part of the movie that bothered me a little. Around 1:40, a character exits frame and then the camera zooms in on the blank brick wall. What was the point of letting that shot linger so long after the character had left? As others have mentioned, the narration got on my nerves after a few minutes. There must be more effective ways to get the plot moving. Lighting-wise, there always seemed to be ample rim lighting but never enough fill. Hence, a lot of the characters were well defined against the background, but I couldn't see their faces well enough.
Over all, I think this is a good movie and I'll watch it again when I'm not so jaded from having watched 35 other spy movies. Thanks for contributing to the fest!
Norm Sanders
Script Wrangler
Visually, a pretty cool film! Some great post/editing work as well. However, it took a long time for the story to make any sense, or for me to care about it. While I liked the reveal twist at the end, I'm not confident it was strong enough to make up for the previous 4-5 minutes of the film where I was struggling to know or care about what was going on? I wish I could give you some ideas of things to fill in some of the in-between, to keep the viewer glued to every second that was going on, but I can't. Then again, I could be the only one that feels th way I do about the story. Anyway, this IS a cool concept, but also feels like it's been done (okay, ours and nearly EVERY other film is probably guilty of that as well, lol). I liked it, I really did ... especially visually. Just wish there was more BEFORE the ending that would have kept me riveted and/or drawn into it more until the final payoff.
Thanks again for the comments guys! Here's a couple of points I wanted to address:
The static stuff was done with a combination of overlays in AE. A few layers of distorted images overlaid together over the original, mixed with scan lines slightly blurred.
Thanks for the compliments on the alley scene -- that one was a lot of fun to shoot. The messages were all in his head... they made sense to him during whatever situation he was in (at least that was what I was going for). Yeah, others have expressed dissatisfaction with those messages as well.
Double awesome. If I got one person to feel bad for him there, I'm happy
Actually, there were no real practical effects in the film. The watch, the newspaper, the computer screen, the gunshot, blood splatter, all were vfx and generated in post. So glad you dig!
Thanks again all!
The static stuff was done with a combination of overlays in AE. A few layers of distorted images overlaid together over the original, mixed with scan lines slightly blurred.
Thanks for the compliments on the alley scene -- that one was a lot of fun to shoot. The messages were all in his head... they made sense to him during whatever situation he was in (at least that was what I was going for). Yeah, others have expressed dissatisfaction with those messages as well.
Awesome. :dankk2:
Double awesome. If I got one person to feel bad for him there, I'm happy
Actually, there were no real practical effects in the film. The watch, the newspaper, the computer screen, the gunshot, blood splatter, all were vfx and generated in post. So glad you dig!
Thanks again all!
Edgen
Veteran
My Thoughts:
I loved the look of this film and it gave me those creepy vibes I was looking for. I'm sure it's been mentioned many times already, but the end was just so dark it was hard to follow what was going on. Even full screen and a brightening the monitor didn't help too much.
VO.. it worked in some parts, and not so much in others. Music was great.. it set the tone of the film.
Looking forward to seeing your upcoming film.
Cheers!
/j
I loved the look of this film and it gave me those creepy vibes I was looking for. I'm sure it's been mentioned many times already, but the end was just so dark it was hard to follow what was going on. Even full screen and a brightening the monitor didn't help too much.
VO.. it worked in some parts, and not so much in others. Music was great.. it set the tone of the film.
Looking forward to seeing your upcoming film.
Cheers!
/j
