Don't do this....

Mike Krumlauf

Mike Krumlauf

Award Winning Filmmaker
So I recently tallied up all the receipts to all the pieces of my F23 kit to get it working properly and the total was just short of 6 grand (yikes). With that kind of change I could potentially move onto something like an ALEXA Classic... well, my stupid ideas got the better of me and I decided to send my camera off to Adorama in new york for evaluation... here are all the pieces I sent in

-Sony F23 Body with L Handle and Asst. Panel Remote
-Sony SRW1/SRPC1 Recorder HDCAM SR with 102 and 103 Boards installed
-Zacuto Universal Baseplate VCT
-Abakus DIrectors Viewfinder with its own Pellican Case
-Fujinon XA16x8A HD Zoom Lens B4
-Canon SD ENG Lens (forgot model number)
-Astro DM 3000 HDSDI Monitor

Go look on ebay and see what each individual item is selling for and add your own total up....

....Now take in that Adorama had the poo pooing nerve to offer me $700 for everything!!!!! Are you kidding me?! Thats not even a lowball offer, thats just plain criminal.

So now I wait for them to pack all my stuff back up and send it back where I will continue to be a happy F23 owner. Lesson Learned... dont try to better a situation that is already quite good. Be happy with what you got. I'll just be at peace with the whole thing once everything is home safe and working as it should/better be!

Whole process btw took 3 weeks, part of why i was so silent here as of late. Im sure some of you are laughing at me and its okay, im laughing at me... and crying.
 
Mike, Good on you for coming forward with your lesson learned. Sharing experiences and knowledge is what forums are about. This is one more lesson that goes up on your shelf of knowledge and wisdom.
 
A guy goes go a doctor, raises his arm and says, "Doc, it hurts when I do this".

Doc, "Then don't do this".

(Henny Youngman)
 
Then just imagine how much more all the aks and add ons for a “$6000” alexa would end up being.

You have a cool and unique camera. I like the nostalgic feel it has.
 
Congrats on wiring this thread sincerely! I have been a member for a long time and often get caught up in the whirlwind of "need to upgrade and change" that often occurs with the release of new gear or when I see someone else post their camera and rig. But I usually come to the same conclusion as you and go back to work with what I own and what works for me and the work I do. In keeping with trend of sayings,my American brother-in- law a Vermonter with a dry sense of humour always says: ".....if it ain't broke don't fix it.".
 
I did the same thing a few years ago with my Varicams before moving to PX270s. Adorama, was true to their word of covering the all the costs from there and back. But it all came back.

Another thing this highlights is that specialty items, add-ons, Memory cards etc... are all losers financially. Just know that when/if you need to buy these things they are often a one way street.
 
Mike,

They are giving you a figure that they know you won't accept. The reason is that these cameras are not as popular (thank goodness or we wouldn't grab them at the price we get them) as other options. Now, if a Classic sells for $6000, how much do you think Adorama would offer you for it used? $2000... I mean, their rental company owns a bunch of them and they are already trying to offload them. Nothing wrong with the camera. Just not a popular rental item anymore.

Like James said, I also think that you have a killer kit. Go make some great stuff. Honestly, until my F35 looks as good as some of the stuff posted by some of the members here, I have a way to go. Period. Alexa won't make it better. I have one. I know...
 
I'm looking forward to getting my kit back. 4 weeks without a camera will be too long for me lol. I need to add that it wasnt that I went to get the kit evaluated because I didnt like the camera, its the best camera ive owned, love it to pieces... just got greedy and thought i could walk up the tech latter.... which btw, im already pretty high up there with an F23. So my new realistic goal is to find the F35 conversion kit, thats my goal im working toward. Hopefully one pops up on ebay again soon.
 
Is the lesson here to be happy with what you have or is the lesson here that if you want to sell gear you should not look to Adorama?
 
JPNola said:
Is the lesson here to be happy with what you have or is the lesson here that if you want to sell gear you should not look to Adorama?
Click to expand...

I think it's safe to say both man. I will NEVER send something to adorama again. Here's what does not make sense. April of this year they gave me $2700 for a HPX2700 Varicam (ironic) that I paid half that for but they lowball me on a superior camera package in the same physical and operating shape?

The HPX is only a year or two newer than the F23 if we are looking at beginning of manufacturing dates. HPX is 08, F23 is 06 I believe.
 
It's probably more-so demand than actual superiority and age. 2700's are still workhorses in the broadcast world. While dirt cheap, in the scheme of things, people still buy them up, if just for back-ups. I just got one of mine back form a loan-out to a friend who had his go down last month. He got his repaired and I think he just bought one or two more, as spares(I know one was at Adorama and one was from someone here in-town). $2500-$2700 for that caliber of camera is insane, especially when you consider the market that they're used in is an ~$1800-1900/$2300-$2400/day market(1 to 2 man crew). It's also insane to look at broadcast HD ENG lenses. I see so many Fuji Premier HD 2/3" lenses that still sell for over $30K new and are $10K on eBay.
 
Adorama used is a total scam, I have had them give me offers for gear several times and they we always way below the actual value for the item plus they want to take 30% off of that. Best example, I contacted them for selling a Cooke 20-100 freshly serviced. At the time those lenses were going for $5-6K everywhere. They said it was worth $2200 all the while they had another one on ebay at same time for $6000.
 
dhessel said:
Adorama used is a total scam, I have had them give me offers for gear several times and they we always way below the actual value for the item plus they want to take 30% off of that. Best example, I contacted them for selling a Cooke 20-100 freshly serviced. At the time those lenses were going for $5-6K everywhere. They said it was worth $2200 all the while they had another one on ebay at same time for $6000.
Click to expand...

WOW! Yeah, never doing that again. Do you know any fair resellers out there just for future reference?
 
Run&Gun said:
It's probably more-so demand than actual superiority and age. 2700's are still workhorses in the broadcast world. While dirt cheap, in the scheme of things, people still buy them up, if just for back-ups. I just got one of mine back form a loan-out to a friend who had his go down last month. He got his repaired and I think he just bought one or two more, as spares(I know one was at Adorama and one was from someone here in-town). $2500-$2700 for that caliber of camera is insane, especially when you consider the market that they're used in is an ~$1800-1900/$2300-$2400/day market(1 to 2 man crew). It's also insane to look at broadcast HD ENG lenses. I see so many Fuji Premier HD 2/3" lenses that still sell for over $30K new and are $10K on eBay.
Click to expand...

usedprice.com marked the F23 at much higher in terms of resale value. cant believe original MSRP was 150K.

CRAZY!
Screen Shot 2019-12-22 at 6.09.33 PM.jpg
 
Ouch. The only time I've ever sold to Adorama was when I was working for a company (government contractor) that could only transact with people/organizations on the official vendor list. Otherwise, selling used equipment on eBay or sites like DVX will get you closer to market rate.

Also, I think there's a third lesson to be learned here. Sometimes buying the camera/equipment you want, even if it's a stretch, will cost less than making incremental upgrades. Buying, kitting up, and then selling almost always results in a loss (not to mention the time it takes to learn a new system).
 
I am curious. Why are you guys trying to sell through Adorama? Why not just list it here and on other forums or on Ebay? Or through Craigslist?

I've bought ENG broadcast gear from a broker named Barbara Holler:

https://newprovideo.com


As for getting lowballed on the F23, yes, it has to do with demand for the camera. Which is low. I have never seen one in the field myself or even in the flesh. Remember, Adorama and B&H are more "A/V" product than cinema product. As the gulf between those two worlds has lessened both businesses have carried a bit more "cinema" stuff such as cinema glass. But they both started as still camera stores. Sill photography and "A/V" is still their meat and potatoes. It wouldn't surprise me at all of the person at Adorama you interacted with had to look up a Sony F23 to learn what the heck it is.

I feel for you getting low-balled. But that said, you did buy what is a rather niche camera and obscure model of camera that I assume was already on the way out when you bought it. My expectation would have been that it would continue to rapidly lose value and I would not get much for it re-selling. I get that what Adorama offered was insulting. But it's Adorama, right? They are only going to give you the sort of ridiculously low offers that a car dealer offers on vehicle trade-ins.
 
JPNola said:
I am curious. Why are you guys trying to sell through Adorama? Why not just list it here and on other forums or on Ebay? Or through Craigslist?

I've bought ENG broadcast gear from a broker named Barbara Holler:

https://newprovideo.com


As for getting lowballed on the F23, yes, it has to do with demand for the camera. Which is low. I have never seen one in the field myself or even in the flesh. Remember, Adorama and B&H are more "A/V" product than cinema product. As the gulf between those two worlds has lessened both businesses have carried a bit more "cinema" stuff such as cinema glass. But they both started as still camera stores. Sill photography and "A/V" is still their meat and potatoes. It wouldn't surprise me at all of the person at Adorama you interacted with had to look up a Sony F23 to learn what the heck it is.

I feel for you getting low-balled. But that said, you did buy what is a rather niche camera and obscure model of camera that I assume was already on the way out when you bought it. My expectation would have been that it would continue to rapidly lose value and I would not get much for it re-selling. I get that what Adorama offered was insulting. But it's Adorama, right? They are only going to give you the sort of ridiculously low offers that a car dealer offers on vehicle trade-ins.
Click to expand...

Well said man. you are 100% right. :)
 
So Mike, who is the woman you cut out of the image for you headshot? and does she know she got sliced out? :D
 
I don't know what you guys are expecting here. The used equipment departments at B&H and Adorama are relatively small compared to the rest of the operations. They take in gear, have to check & service it, and then end up having to carry that inventory for far longer than the stuff they carry as new. So that all costs them, even if it just means money sitting on a shelf for months. So that means they have to make a fairly large profit for them to consider the deal at all.

You can take in your old car to a dealer and get a decent trade in value, but that's just "on-paper" value. If you take your car to a used car dealer and just want to walk away with cash you will not get very much, certainly not a lot compared to what that dealer will turn it around and sell it for. And if it's an oddball car that may take awhile for the dealer to unload then don't expect to get the same value as a popular Toyota that originally sold for the same price.
 
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