DoF Too Deep?

compression is caused by camera position not lens - if there was not compression on didtant objects then you wouldnt be able to see to "infinity" - its called perspective

take a wide shot and crop you get a tele shot (excluding smear)

the lawyers lens choices and positioning choices are a great example of the phsycology

of course the wide shooting lawyer did not help the case because the sign would have also looked bigger and the imtelligent judge would have found it proportionally equally obtrusive - neither photographer could bend light or mess with the actual truth without moving the sign for thier shot

S
 
That's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying, Morgan. I'm with you on camera position and all that. It's really just not as easily done as said. Even now, as I'm shooting this model, I would have preferred to change to the 11-16 versus using 17 but was forced to just drag the camera back.

The experience of shooting on an 11 at say 11 feet from subject is different than shooting that same subject on a 17 at say 20 feet.

These are the very things that I'm talking about, and neither are BAD, just have to choose which for when.
 
Gotta run but I wanted to get this up as well. This video was shot with the 5D back in January using the old shoulder mount I had lying around to help stabilize handheld shooting. Compare it to the Yankees video which is all pure hand on camera handheld. The January footage was a 50mm Canon lens and the Yankees was a 55mm Nikon.

It's probably about an hour until the video will finishing posting and converting on Vimeo sorry for the wait but hey it's free.

http://www.vimeo.com/5310531
 
Nath

I cant see what positives your latest video show really - wouldyou pay for that if you were a commissioning editor - be realistic on yourself

Ive just uploaded a handheld test

http://www.vimeo.com/5312667 (pass scarlet)

I try to motivate the moves of the camera - either to reveal more or follow action

Again Im really interested in harsher than harsh criticism from other users -

Could I charge for footage that it that unstable ?

My take is that the wide pans dont work but the close up action does

DL the file and you will see some focus pulls with motivation

S
 
morgan, since you're looking for straight-up honesty, I found Nathan's little handheld clip substantially more interesting to watch than your short clip. Nathan's seemed more intimate, I liked the lighting conditions better, I liked the subject matter better, I liked the focal ranges better, etc. But I understand that is completely subjective. Yours was well shot but I didin't really care to be there or involve myself in what was going on. Like you said before, all this technical gobbledy goop talk is meaningless without a good story (and obviously stories are highly subjective depending on what one enjoys).

I appreciate both your links and I hope to have some links to share soon, good or bad!
 
Im absolutely not interested in content right now (I will be provided with content by clients)

In interested in technique

Lock offs, transitions from A - B, or reveals ie pans across scenes (motivated camera moves)

And holding acceptable focus on all of the above

I accept of course that content is king

Any more thoughts?

S
 
Personally I like to study how others shoot the particular subject matter to see what works and what doesn't. I'm very much into architecture and in this case "grand designs" would be worth having a look at. While the content may not be that interesting you can make it look more interesting than it actually is with good camera work, cutting, and grading.

Are you using a polarizer or ND filters outdoors? they're essential with the MKII and after seeing bloom's desert shoot I decided to invest in some very good quality filters.

The pans were too fast to take in the scene and you're gonna need sticks to get them right. I'm not a big fan of handheld but I don't mind a bit of movement with some kind of stabilizer, even a cheap photo tripod held mid-shaft works to balance the camera better or the string and camera strap trick, but it looked reasonably stable and not too distracting. The 2 pans to the beach looked too similar like the shot was being re-used. And the cuts were slightly too fast for the content IMO. A couple of times you can be seen trying to focus, I'd leave that on the cutting room floor. The exposure is a bit all over the place too.

I did a MKII test shooting a festival up the road the other day having not shot any crowd stuff for years. I got home and had a look and it's a shocker. Too much editing in camera and lousy focus pulling but the exposure wasn't too bad and it's looking pretty filmic graded. I'll get around to cutting it and post it.
 
morgan, my apologies, I was looking at the content as much as the technique. I'm with your initial thoughts, the close ups and medium shots work better for me than the wide pans. The pans were pretty fast and I kept looking to see if there was something going on that you were frantically following, which I didn't see. Those quick wide pans might work if they were following something or revealing something extra interesting (I guess it's hard to separate the technique from the subject sometimes when I'm analyzing video). But the other shots worked for me, good change of focus on different things within the same scene.
 
Well this HAS been entertaining and very informative I might add... but unfortunately not so much about DoF, FoV, CoC or AoV...... *sigh*
 
C'mon Buck just admit you like Nathan's more because you like furry things. Man it's gonna be tough shooting furry things with this cam focussing manually. It's too bad the GH1 loses it with greenery.
 
Sorry it took so long for me to reply Morgan there was a little DVX crash today - I'm sure you noticed.

I think you're right with your assessment of my two videos but you missed the point a bit. I wasn't trying to show off my best cinematography. I wanted those who weren't sure if it was possible to do handheld with the 5D that in fact it is entirely possible by showing the difference between holding the 5D in your hand and what you get putting it on a shoulder support. Secondly I also wanted to show the obvious that in fact the 5D can shoot footage that doesn't have razor-thin DOF. The Yankees video is very jittery and thus creates some jello. But the NYC video is much more like the handheld video I've shot with other video cameras for years now.

Now could I sell it - well that wasn't the point. (I do think in the NYC video towards the beginning there is a shot where the camera moves to the left and the focus pulls from the foreground the the people in the background. I thought that was pretty good for handheld, pretty thin DOF & pulling focus myself in a completely spontaneous shot.) Your video looks more like a camera on a steadicam. It's very steady which is good. If I'm shooting documentary style I might use handheld but try to be super steady and create the effect of a little dolly move or crane move. But other times say on a gritty indie film the director wants the camera always alive showing you it's handheld. However, there aren't many uses for the endless tiny shaking you see in the Yankess video - a basic shoulder support makes all the difference.

If you want to talk about technique or what my better cinematography looks like check out the two new videos I added.

http://www.vimeo.com/5328645

The Reel - is well our reel. Locked Doors is a 20min short I worked on several years ago. In locked doors check out the clip that starts at 14min 16 seconds (also check out the sex scene opening credits about 5 mins in:dankk2:).

This was a jib shot. We were shooting wide open at F1.4 on a 50mm (I think) whatever lens, it was absolutely wide open because we shot with the original letus flip which was slow as hell. Most likely we were shooting FF or close to it because I always tried to zoom in just enough to fill the frame with the image on the ground glass.

I bring up this shot for this reason - it took like 15 takes to get because the combination of getting the jib move right, while panning the camera & pulling focus at F1.4 was a real bear. I like the shot, but there was a high cost to the actors and crew in order to get it.

So my style is more about framing than dollys, cranes, jibs, etc. because most of my projects either don't have the time or experienced man-power to really do these shots without turning a twelve hour shooting day into an all nighter. After trying to do more, I've realized that a well composed and interesting shot on sticks can be just as cool and a lot easier to do. I think your set should be about your actors not your camera moves. And you have to consider the time and frustration flying a camera or setting up the dolly tracks can create. If you have the experienced crew that's different. Those shots add a real cinematic feel but even good actors wear out on the 15th take. Be creative with the angles, the composition & the framing and you'll still have an interesting and cinematic look while not grinding your shoot to a halt. Then you can focus more on creating an environment where your actors can be creative. That's where you really need to nail it.
 
squig said:
C'mon Buck just admit you like Nathan's more because you like furry things. Man it's gonna be tough shooting furry things with this cam focussing manually. It's too bad the GH1 loses it with greenery.
Click to expand...

Dude you aint lying about the greenery (and just incase the GH1 police jump on my post: no I dont own a GH1 yet but I have seen enough clips to determain it's not web compression or that "it will be fine on a PS3 going to a HDTV" or whatever the f--- the latest excuses for the GH1 are.) But I still plan on getting the GH1 for some handheld 720p web stuff because (I believe) it's a very usable cam (for me) in that scenario. (sucks that I feel I have to qualify all my opinions now LOL)


squig said:
funny how you show up as soon as I start talking about furry things
Click to expand...

LOL... Wait, are you saying I am a furry thing or that I have a furry fetish :huh:
 
Johnny Cola said:
Dude you aint lying about the greenery (and just incase the GH1 police jump on my post: no I dont own a GH1 yet but I have seen enough clips to determain it's not web compression or that "it will be fine on a PS3 going to a HDTV" or whatever the f--- the latest excuses for the GH1 are.) But I still plan on getting the GH1 for some handheld 720p web stuff because (I believe) it's a very usable cam (for me) in that scenario. (sucks that I feel I have to qualify all my opinions now LOL)




LOL... Wait, are you saying I am a furry thing or that I have a furry fetish :huh:
Click to expand...

hehe you tell me

I learned early on with the D90 that green stuff really tested the codec and from what I've seen the GH1 can't cope, better than the D90 but nothing like the MKII. Weeds look like weeds and I like my weed :Drogar-Smoke(DBG): But I'd still like a GH1 too but they have to sort out the codec.

yeah the GH1 browncoats are listening be careful what you say :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
squig said:
C'mon Buck just admit you like Nathan's more because you like furry things. Man it's gonna be tough shooting furry things with this cam focussing manually.
Click to expand...

Sure, the furry thing got my attention. But I won't have any trouble focusing because I go deep on furry things. F8 and be there.
 
Buck Forester said:
Sure, the furry thing got my attention. But I won't have any trouble focusing because I go deep on furry things. F8 and be there.
Click to expand...

lmao I'm not touching that one :shocked:

hey Buck what kind of daypack do you use to lug your gear around in the bush?

great pics btw especially from the kayak. Makes me wanna pack up and get out of the city.
 
squig said:
Personally I like to study how others shoot the particular subject matter to see what works and what doesn't. I'm very much into architecture and in this case "grand designs" would be worth having a look at.
Click to expand...

Grand Designs (UK show) is indeed a fine example of cheap production with much handheld work with specific moves from A-B as is BBC 'gardeners world' - both those shows 'work'

It is not a style I like - my prefererd style is tradition dolly/crane/steadicam big money cinematography also I think the content sucks but I appreciate they are a kind of language for cheap television semi doco

If you look at grand designs it is really cheap/fast (in broadcast terms) to produce

It is a style that Im trying to emulate as a model for creating utra cheap web mini corporate shoots - hopefully gaining a USP of adding a little 5d beauty

My suspicion is that Im not good enough yet to do the wide shots without sticks although thre result were good for the closer/longer shots where there is movement in frame

S
 
hey Buck what kind of daypack do you use to lug your gear around in the bush?
Click to expand...

Gracias for the compliments. As for hauling my gear, well, I worked part-time at REI for five years and my garage now looks like an REI store. I'm a gearhead of sorts, it's actually an illness. I have 18 tents, at least 20 backpacks/daypacks, 12 stoves, 14 sleeping bags, etc., etc. All high-end gear because we could prodeal the stuff for pennies on the dollar, plus buy customer-returned gear for pennies on the hundreds of dollars.

Most of the trips are multi-day trips so I use huge backpacks from Gregory, Arc'Teryx, etc. 5500 cu in and larger. I'd like to get one custom made though, a huge one specialized for all my media gear. For day trips I still use a large backpack because I haul my dolly/track and jib too... insanely heavy but bearable for hikes only a few miles.

Now that I have a Mark II I'm going to try and design an ultralight jib for my lightweight Bogen/Manfrotto Carbon One tripod I use for still photography, and approach a tent-pole manufacturer to see about making some uber-light dolly track. I love movement in my video... static tripod shots and zooms get dry pretty quick for me.

I have a Glidecam 4000 but I'm going to order that Merlin for my MKII, it's really light. I need a lightweight package to get all this stuff to the highest of the High Sierra on my back. I need to get to unique remote places, places of insane beauty, which'll help set my stuff apart from the roadside stops. All in gorgeous high definition. Flyfishing for golden trout, climbing 14,000'+ peaks, remote waterfalls and valleys and lakes and furry things.
 
Yeah I figured you didn't make many day trips lookin at ur pics.

I have more gear than I need but not that much gear hehe

Most of my packs are made by Macpac in NZ including the one that carries my kid. I'm thinking about getting an osprey to carry my MKII and lenses the harnesses look really comfortable but I have to try one out. I've just ordered an ICU grande from http://fstopgear.com/now/product/mountain-series/internal-camera-unit-icu- Their packs look ok but they don't sell em here and you know how important fit is.

I'm working on a script for an epic that I wanna shoot on a mountain in the middle of winter, it's a 10km hike from the nearest road the MKII makes shooting it possible and fun.

Have a look at this before you get a merlin- http://www.camotionllc.com/blackbird-a-78.html
I use a steadytracker extreme, it doesn't have a gimble so I can grab the lens and not throw it off balance.

I dunno how much the glidetrack weighs but it looks pretty light unless you need a really long one.
 
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