ALL: Does this look like an Autofocus Bug to You?? -- Video Clip

Please Panasonic, and or Jan, confirm or update us on this issue. A lot of us are waiting. If the Ac130/160 is the way it is, with no changes to the autofocus, then tell us. Each day we wait, we are saying we would like this camera from Panasonic. But I and I assume others need another camera to do their work. Let us know how much time to wait, if you want us to. Or keep us more up to date on this issue.
I have a BIG job coming up, and I need to buy some cameras. I look every day on this forum for an update.
 
auto-focus is horrible

auto-focus is horrible

LampoFilm said:
Please Panasonic, and or Jan, confirm or update us on this issue. A lot of us are waiting. If the Ac130/160 is the way it is, with no changes to the autofocus, then tell us. Each day we wait, we are saying we would like this camera from Panasonic. But I and I assume others need another camera to do their work. Let us know how much time to wait, if you want us to. Or keep us more up to date on this issue.
I have a BIG job coming up, and I need to buy some cameras. I look every day on this forum for an update.
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I agree with LampoFilm, please let us know. The more I use the AC130 the more I hate the auto-focus, it is horrible! Lets just say what it is, the auto-focus is junk! When a $500 consumer camera has better auto-focus then a $3500 camera, it really is a shame. All we ask is the same auto-focus abilities as the HMC150. I shot a wedding yesterday and the auto-focus was horrible. With my XH-A1 I used auto-focus about 98% of the time, with very good results. With my AC130 I may use it 15% of the time and with mostly bad results. Let us know so we can move on. I may have to dump my two AC130s because I would like a camera with good auto-focus. I can shoot using manual focus as I also use my Canon 60D for the eye candy shots at a wedding but I bought the AC130 because I was wanted a camera with good auto-focus. I just assumed the auto-focus would not take a step back from the HMC150. I was wrong!
 
I agree 100%, I have lost business already from the poor auto focus on my AC160, and as many have said, I do not habe that problem with my HC150 or MC40. I am one of thiose that posted video of the problem...kids holding flashlight and or shots. Last week while doing a concert with the 150 and 160, I again experienced the auto focus dance with the 160. I am getting use to it now and use the HC150 for performer's stage movement shots and the 160 in a locked down "wide" shot. The 160's lens is great...imo better that the 150's...but the auto focus is now worthy of Panasonics name. I ask Jan a few week ago for some answers....got use manual and focus assit button....that really doesn't work for real time, one shot moving actors, etc. Please Jan/Panasonic...let us know what is being done to fix this issue....I need to have a dependable second camera. Waiting for your reply.
 
Yes, Panasonic had my camera for 10 days and i really thought they would take care of me. I guess not. Now, i have to go through another means to resolve this issue, for me. I guess a few months and day in court.......but I know I will get this resolved.

Hopefully, they will PM me and resolve. But, tomorrow I'm filing the paperwork! Until later.........good luck dvxusers!
 
Dstar said:
Yes, Panasonic had my camera for 10 days and i really thought they would take care of me. I guess not. Now, i have to go through another means to resolve this issue, for me. I guess a few months and day in court.......but I know I will get this resolved.

Hopefully, they will PM me and resolve. But, tomorrow I'm filing the paperwork! Until later.........good luck dvxusers!
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So to clarify this matter, you are saying that Panasonic told you that they have decided to do nothing at all to address any Autofocus complaints? If so, that would be most disappointing to hear.

Unlike you, I did not buy my AC-130 for "run and gun" type shooting. I've been using mine almost exclusively on a tripod. And I bought it primarily for its good manual controls, so that I could learn to shoot manual like professionals typically do. The new Focus Assist feature makes manual focusing so very easy. That feature is an absolute dream to use on the AC-130, it works so good. So in my case, I was specifically looking for a camcorder with good manual features, to be used in a fixed position on a tripod.

For so-called "run and gun" usage, I have a little Canon Vixia HF G10 that is super compact and light, and does amazingly well in that style of shooting. And I've had no issues with using its Autofocus, despite the fact that it cost me only $1,400, which is $2,300 less than what I paid for my AC-130.

I guess if I was in your shoes I would be feeling very frustrated indeed, in trying to use these new Panasonic camcorders for that type of shooting. Like you, I was surprised that the AC-130's Autofocus did not perform better, considering that it is a professional grade camcorder.

For me, though, this issue has not turned out to be a deal breaker, for how I am using my AC-130. If anything, it has helped to force me to learn how to control my camcorder manually. However, I do also have the luxury of using my Canon, when I do want to mingle in a crowd of people and do some quick and dirty shooting.
 
LanceOregon,
I requested to return the camera and Pany said that it is functioning properly. Panasonic service understood my issues and needs and I at one point got the ok to return. Then they changed their position and would not consider any resolution. I would have been happy with a exchange to the HMC150 per my needs. No, were working on it or anything. Maybe it is a design flaw or something that can not easily be resolved. Don't know why they would not easily resolve my issue? What's one camera to the Panasonic corporation?

Why leave customers hanging? Specifically, if the camera was aimed at this market and did not work as advertised? Prosumer, auto features! I did learn, wait a few weeks or so before jumping on a new product! I just can't use this camera for my purposes, even though it was advertised as such. Oohh I wish I didn't sell my other camera for this!

If I was shooting situations like you, I guess I would not have an issue. But then again, I would have purchased the Af100 then. When you are bringing a 1/3 sensor camera to this market, what type of shooting were they expecting consumers to do?
 
I believe that a problem with many of the initial reviews of these camcorders is that they were done by professional videographers, and that they thus did not bother to test Autofocus sufficiently.

That is unfortunate if it is really something that is not feasible to address. It will not impact me much, but I'm sure that it will turn many others off to the camcorder. It may prove to be a wart too big for many to ignore. And that will, in turn, affect Panasonic's sales.

It is also a shame since the camcorders do have so many great features going for them.

Thanks for the update.
 
There is this solution which normaly happens in car and aviation industry, in an event where a model serie is discovered to have some common production error, they are usually forced to recall the whole serie and and fix the error, money lost is added to the next model and parts everybody is happy. Electronic companies get away by introducing a new model, early buyers pay the costs.
 
qap15 said:
There is this solution which normaly happens in car and aviation industry, in an event where a model serie is discovered to have some common production error, they are usually forced to recall the whole serie and and fix the error, money lost is added to the next model and parts everybody is happy.
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The aviation industry is highly regulated by the government due to safety concerns, so it is really not a good analogy.

Even the car industry is not similar, in that if something goes wrong on a camcorder, you are not going to risk experiencing a crash and suffering injury or death.

And not all of the auto makers are equal when it comes to addressing such problems. Some do try to hide and conceal them, or at least not admit that a defect is a real problem. I've certainly had a wonderful experience with my current Toyota, in that my local dealer has twice actually phoned me to bring my car in for free repairs and parts replacement. I did not have to monitor the situation myself. The first one I had heard about in the press, but the second one caught me totally by surprise.

So I never even experienced any problem with my vehicle. But if it had not been for these two recalls, perhaps I would have.
 
:cry:Now this Panasonic "Loss of Focus" issue is becoming confusing. Dear Panasonic or Jan please make an official statement regarding this issue....does Panasonic recognize that there is a problem with the 130/160/250 auto focus system or does Panasonic say there is "no problem" and the "Loss of Focus" during camcorder operation within the design criteria for those camcorders. This issue has been ongoing for several weeks, more than enough time for Panasonic to perform a "good business" practice by making a statement regarding their position on this issue. Come on Panasonic, be forthcoming and transparent about this issue. Unfortunetly it looks to me that Panasonic's silence regarding this "problem and potential warrenty/return/repair action" is only causing potential customers to look to other brands. I really like my three Panasonic cameras....but as it stands now...my next purchase will not be a Panasonic product if the company cannot openly discuss potential product issues with its customers who have purchased their video camera and are having problems with its operation.
 
LanceOregon said:
I believe that a problem with many of the initial reviews of these camcorders is that they were done by professional videographers, and that they thus did not bother to test Autofocus sufficiently........
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I for one prefer reviews "done by professional videographers" like Adam Wilt http://provideocoalition.com/index.p...os_camcorders/ to quote his review "Autofocus works well overall, though like all autofocus systems it’s subject to “hunting” back and forth around a desired focus point. That hunting doesn’t visibly affect the focal point, which remains crisp and clear. Instead, out-of-focus element in the scene can “breathe”, pulsating in their out-of-focusness at about a 1 Hz rate. It’s not typically noticeable unless such elements are bright and contrasty, and again, it’s an artifact of autofocus hunting common across many cameras."

I also appreciate comments form users as to unique issues that a camera model poses and in what shooting situation one can expect problems to occur. All cameras have their own issues & no camera is perfect, knowing the issues and how to work around them is infinitely helpful to know. The AC160/130 & HPX250 appear to be exceptional cameras while not excelling in autofocus the other aspects for many totally outweigh any issue with AF, no other camera even comes close at offering a quality 22x lens on a 1920 by 1080 broadcast capable (HPX250 approved by the BBC) small handheld HD camera.
 
Yak said:
no other camera even comes close at offering a quality 22x lens on a 1920 by 1080 broadcast capable (HPX250 approved by the BBC) small handheld HD camera.
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Take a look at the Canon XF300. BBC approved as well. Lens is almost the same (too lazy to look it up), with better (IMHO) IOS & AF. Great codec, records to CF cards - almost as cheap as SDHC, and way cheaper than P2.
 
Yak said:
I for one prefer reviews "done by professional videographers" like Adam Wilt http://provideocoalition.com/index.p...os_camcorders/ to quote his review "Autofocus works well overall, though like all autofocus systems it’s subject to “hunting” back and forth around a desired focus point. That hunting doesn’t visibly affect the focal point, which remains crisp and clear. Instead, out-of-focus element in the scene can “breathe”, pulsating in their out-of-focusness at about a 1 Hz rate. It’s not typically noticeable unless such elements are bright and contrasty, and again, it’s an artifact of autofocus hunting common across many cameras."

I also appreciate comments form users as to unique issues that a camera model poses and in what shooting situation one can expect problems to occur. All cameras have their own issues & no camera is perfect, knowing the issues and how to work around them is infinitely helpful to know. The AC160/130 & HPX250 appear to be exceptional cameras while not excelling in autofocus the other aspects for many totally outweigh any issue with AF, no other camera even comes close at offering a quality 22x lens on a 1920 by 1080 broadcast capable (HPX250 approved by the BBC) small handheld HD camera.
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Really no need to take a shot at anyone. Just because he doesn't like the autofocus feature doesn't make him, or anyone else, a non professional. There are more than a few pros who use this feature at times. It may be very limited, such as crane use or steadi-cam, but that really is irrelevant isn't it? The point most are trying to make is these camcorders are ranging in price from $4000 to $5000 and there autofocus should work better than a $400 iPhone.

'Nuff said already. Why are you reading and participating on a thread that obviously isn't happy with this feature? If it doesn't bother you, you have no need for autofocus and it makes you feel more professional, then good for you. Go buy it.
 
hollyburgh said:
'Nuff said already. Why are you reading and participating on a thread that obviously isn't happy with this feature? If it doesn't bother you, you have no need for autofocus and it makes you feel more professional, then good for you. Go buy it.
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I would agree with this general sentiment. This thread is concerned with the poor quality of the AF system on the AC160/AC130 and especially concerned since there are competing cameras with perfectly usable AF systems. That is all this is about, and I do wish that the other users around here who do not need AF would please stop badgering the other users who would like to use this thread as a petition in favor of producing a solution.

I for one agree with the general sentiment that says "you should rarely be using AF anyway" but that does not contribute to the effort to fix what is quite obviously a significant shortcoming of these cameras. I do not think it is farfetched to acknowledge that this issue is more than likely a manufacturing bug since it is unique to these cameras (other cameras in this class do not exhibit this problem, as has been pointed out over and over with various video evidence submitted). So being a suspected bug, it is perfectly okay for those users who are affected by it - whether on 10% of their productions or 90% of their productions - to complain about it and petition for a solution.

And I do understand that one possible solution is "don't use AF" or to use the push auto assisted method, but those solutions have been offered here and thus I don't feel it adds to the thread for users to continue stating this workaround. For now, the most productive posts in this particular thread would be from more users who share the concern about AF functions on this camera and who would like to add their voice of support. To petition AGAINST Panasonic using resources to solve this problem is missing the point. Panasonic already offers a variety of manual focus solutions on this camera and so manual focus is fully supported. The AF problem is what needs clarifying and solving.
 
Yak said:
I for one prefer reviews "done by professional videographers" like Adam Wilt http://provideocoalition.com/index.p...os_camcorders/ to quote his review "Autofocus works well overall, though like all autofocus systems it’s subject to “hunting” back and forth around a desired focus point. That hunting doesn’t visibly affect the focal point, which remains crisp and clear. Instead, out-of-focus element in the scene can “breathe”, pulsating in their out-of-focusness at about a 1 Hz rate. It’s not typically noticeable unless such elements are bright and contrasty, and again, it’s an artifact of autofocus hunting common across many cameras."
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Well, I myself posted a link to that review earlier here in this forum, noting that I felt it was the most well done and in-depth review published so far on these camcorders.

My point, though, is that, in my opinion, Adam Wilt failed to provide a good detailed evaluation of the camera's autofocus performance. Either he did not shoot a lot using it, or folks like myself have defective Panasonic camcorders. If you look at videos posted in this thread, you will see that the focal point is indeed being dramatically affected and thrown off in situations. The images are NOT remaining crisp and clear, as Wilt stated. What he described in his review regarding Autofocus is clearly NOT what folks here in this thread are experiencing with their camcorder. It would be neither fair or accurate to portray the issues being discussed here as being explained by those remarks in that review.

To be fair to him, he was simply writing a review, and was not a beta tester looking for issues.

Yak said:
I also appreciate comments form users as to unique issues that a camera model poses and in what shooting situation one can expect problems to occur. All cameras have their own issues & no camera is perfect, knowing the issues and how to work around them is infinitely helpful to know. The AC160/130 & HPX250 appear to be exceptional cameras while not excelling in autofocus the other aspects for many totally outweigh any issue with AF, no other camera even comes close at offering a quality 22x lens on a 1920 by 1080 broadcast capable (HPX250 approved by the BBC) small handheld HD camera.
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If you review my comments here from an overall perspective, you will see that I also fall into that category myself. I'm keeping my AC130 and will continue to use it.
 
Harry Pallenberg said:
Take a look at the Canon XF300. BBC approved as well. Lens is almost the same (too lazy to look it up), with better (IMHO) IOS & AF. Great codec, records to CF cards - almost as cheap as SDHC, and way cheaper than P2.
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The XF300's zoom is 18x optical, so while it is indeed powerful, it is not quite as good. Plus, it has no digital zoom feature. And the 2x digital zoom feature on these new Panasonic camcorders is simply fantastic. The image quality remains entirely acceptable, in my opinion. Which means from a practical standpoint, one can go all the way to 44x with this camcorder, without hardly any reservation.

Of course, you had best have a real steady tripod if you shoot at even the full 22x optical, much less at 44x using the 2x digital zoom. : )
 
Again, if anyone forgot. The HMC150 handled autofocus very well. Why is the Ac130/160 way off on the autofocus? For my needs, and some others here, the autofocus hunting issue is a problem, even though the rest of the camera is great.

With all respect, if you don't use autofocus, then great for you. But the people that bought this camera thinking the autofocus would be as good as the HMC150, we are upset.


We just want a simple answer from Jan or Panasonic if they are still looking into this issue and what they might do about it.
We will wait for a little bit if there is a fix. Because we like Panasonic cameras, that is why we are here.
Otherwise set us free.
 
hollyburgh said:
Really no need to take a shot at anyone. ...... Why are you reading and participating on a thread that obviously isn't happy with this feature? If it doesn't bother you, you have no need for autofocus and it makes you feel more professional, then good for you. Go buy it.
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In no way was my post "meant to take a shot at anyone" it was as a support reviews by "professional videographers" like Adam Wilt as well as reviews from members of DVXuser who have posted there experience with this camera. It is unfortunate that a number of users are not happy with the autofocus aspects of the AC160/130 and it has been very helpful that they have shared their knowledge. It seems that if autofocus is very important to your needs then this may not be the camera for you.

For many people this camera will be a great tool and like all tools there are situations where it is right and other situations where another tool will be better for that job. Whether or not the issue with the Autofocus is "Fixable Bug" or a unintended result of the 22X Very sharp HD lens on a small professional camera remains to be seen. I for one am glad that Panasonic did not leave off the Autofocus option from this lens, the warning about the possible problems which may arise when using it is also very helpful.
 
Just out of curiosity....does this AF problem occur throughout the zoom range or is it just past the 12 x area. Has anyone done a test of the entire lens range to check for this....it might be illuminating, then again I could be just making a wild guess about what's happening based on something Barry said earlier.
 
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