FS7: Documentary Workflow with DaVinci Resolve 16

B

bayarea_dvxer

Member
I'd like some workflow recommendations using my Sony FS7 and DaVinci Resolve on a documentary project.

I'm mostly shooting in SLOG2 and 3 in UHD 3840x2160 10-bit 4:2:2 XAVC-I. I'm recording internally on XQD G Series cards.
I plan to master in HD, as some archive and other footage is HD or less.

After shooting, I've been using Sony Catalyst Browser to COPY the day's shooting to a folder onto 2 backup external hard drives and a backup NAS.
I considered using Catalyst to export to ProRes or even ProRes proxy but that seems to add lots of time up front and perhaps its best to save the directly out of camera files?

For editing on a MacBook Pro, I think its better if I use ProRes LT or Proxy files. And then maybe after the initial edit, switch directories to the higher res files?
Should I have Catalyst Browse make these LT or Proxy files? Or have DaVinci do it?

What about the Sony file structure. Should I be preserving all those internal folders (Clip, Sub, Edit, Take, Thmbnl, and XML file) or just have a flat single directory with ProRes (or MXL) files (obviously making sure all files are uniquely named).

Can others share your workflows and help point me the right direction.

Thanks,
Jon
 
Jon, what's wrong with editing the XAVC-I files natively? I do it every day and I'm also working on nothing but MacBook Pros. Seems like you are searching for an answer to a problem that doesn't even exist. What sort of issues are you running into with Resolve that makes you want to transcode and use proxies and deal with all that hassle?

Rule #1: ALWAYS KEEP THE SONY FILE STRUCTURE INTACT.
 
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Hi Doug,
I'm HONORED to get a speedy reply from you. I've just finished your FS7 videos and had watched the Z90 videos before that. Great information!!!

The issue is I've been getting some lagging and jittering on playback. There is too much content to fit on the Laptop HD. So I've been using a Thunderbolt external disk-based HD. Maybe I should try an external SSD for faster performance.

I also have some Z90 XAVC HD 422 files and those don't playback smoothly. As you know, that's a Long GOP codec and likely needs to converted to an NLE-friendly format. Glad to hear the XAVC-I should work without transcoding.

Re Rule #1, so this structure that I've been using should be fine
/2020-03-10-name of shoot
../CLIP
......Clip0018.MXF
......Clip0019.MXF
/2020-03-20-name of shoot
../CLIP
......Clip0020.MXF
...

I like KISS. Keep It Simply Stupid. So maybe the slow HD will solve all and then won't have to deal with proxies, etc.
 
Thanks for watching the videos. I appreciate it.

90% of the time when someone says they have problems with playback performance it is due to their choice of hard drive. A lot of people think they need the latest super duper computer with tons of processing power but all they really lack is a decent HDD or SSD. It's like putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari. Get a decent drive and you won't need to waste time and resources transcoding. it will be money well-spent.

Rule #2: Never put video files on the internal hard drive of your computer where your OS is located.

Rule #3: Just because your hard drive is a Thunderbolt drive does not guarantee that it is fast enough for editing 4K. Have you tested it with Blackmagic Disk Speed Test? If so, what was the result? There's no reason any professional should be doing any editing on anything other than a fast SSD. They are cheap and reliable. You use it for your current project and archive off to cheaper and slower drives when the project is done to make room for the next project. I actually have two 8TB SSDs that can hold more than a year's worth of my projects and offer 1350 Mbps speeds so thjey can handle anything I throw at them. SSDs are very inexpensive and money well spent.

Regarding Rule #1, I really have no idea what the Sony structure is because there is no reason to concern myself with it. The key is to just keep everything in the XDROOT folder (or Private depending on the camera) and below intact. Nothing more needs to be known about the structure. And yes, as you say, keep each XDROOT folder inside a folder that identifies the shoot/project and card number.
 
I tested the drives with Blackmagic Disk Speed Test and that was the bottleneck.

I also found a SDD drive used in an earlier project and that passed the test. I like the idea of offloading from that to the slower drives for backups and just stick to the fast SSD.

Ok on the rest too. Thanks very much!
 
bayarea_dvxer said:
Can others share your workflows and help point me the right direction.
Click to expand...

+1 on DJ's comments. Work every day with native XAVC. To me it is pointless going the extra steps. And yes back up the cards in their entirety to archive drives. ProRes nice to work with but adds no benefit to what is already a pretty robust 422 10-bit codec.

Check out the following doco shot and edited entirely using XAVC. Nothing wrong with XAVC for doco work. XAVC acquisition and post is a widely accepted workflow with many alliance partners now.

Chris Young

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go1iV7bZbZs

https://www.xavc-info.org/xavc/share/data/XAVC_Encode_Supported_Products.pdf
 
I got a m2 1TB SSD in my PC to store my files. Will cost you about 125 dollar. That must be enough for a documentary. Read: 3400 MB/s, Write: 2500 MB/s no more bottleneck!
The second m2 500GB SSD is my cache disk. I'm not sure if you can put that in your Mac, but if this can this will make your computer a lot faster.
I never convert to Prores, XAVX-i works fine.

Another tip: don't dump all your footage on your working disk but use Catalyst to make the first selection. That will save you a lot of time during editing and a lot of disk space.
And with Catalyst you can make a logic file structure on your working disk.

Last point (I guess you already know this): while editing use a 1080 timeline and playback at 1080 and then render at 2K or 4K or HD.
 
Publimix said:
I got a m2 1TB SSD in my PC to store my files. Will cost you about 125 dollar. That must be enough for a documentary.
Click to expand...

I know that for most of the documentaries I shoot the editors use Proxy workflows -- though most are presently editing with PremierePro...
Admittedly some of my producers tend to do numerous long interviews - 90-150 minutes each - usually with two cameras running constantly - but my best guess would be that we'll roll anywhere between 60 and 100 hours of camera footage for each documentary - plus of course stock/archival material and other elements in addition.

The point is -- you really need to consider what the project is and how much data you'll be creating as the basis for determining your workflow.
 
Well whatever the data is that my projecs are, I swapped my HDD's with SSD's in my workflow. HDD works well too in my case but m2 SSD is just 10 times faster with copying.

100 hours 4K xavc-i from my FX7 is 1,3 TB. I guess a 2TB SDD will do then.

I work with Davinci, don't use proxy. No need for that so far.
 
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Publimix said:
100 hours 4K xavc-i is 1,3 TB. I guess a 2TB SDD will do then.
Click to expand...

One of us needs to check our math... As a rule of thumb I usually figure about 7 hours of 4k XAVC-Intra data per Terabyte... So I'd put 100 hours at closer to 14 TB ??
 
Ha your math is right. My classic mistake. But 14 TB/100 hours for a 50 min. documentary (=shooting ratio of 120 ) seems a bit overkill? or is it a series?

With this amount of data I would change my workflow. Selecting the right shots with Catalyst Prepare would be my priority. Or invest in a fast fileserver.
 
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Different films (4 different producers/production companies.) Most of the films are in the 60 - 90 minute finished length range, some of them historical (featuring interviews with historians as well as with individuals who lived through the events), others theatre or music related. Some air on PBS, HBO or other networks, one went directly to Theatrical release. Several received Emmy noms, as well as one Emmy award, a Peabody, and some other recognition... It's not that unusual to shoot 3 hours of footage per camera per day (2 or more cameras) with each documentary requiring anywhere between 10 and 20 shooting days.

Amazing how fast the footage adds up! It wasn't much of an issue when everything was HD and we were shooting with several XDcams, but 4k has really tipped the scales...

But yes, I'm a big believer in SSD's - I always bring a couple of 2TB Samsung T5 drives along for temporary backups. (They can also work great as a source for Proxy editing...)
 
Thanks for all the great feedback and suggestions. To sum up, this is the workflow that folks seem to be suggesting:

Shoot FS7 using XAVC-I

Using Catalyst Browse, COPY (not Export) the XAVC-I files from the XQD card to 3 external hard drives (DJ's safe backup recommendation), 2 for backup and 1 for online editing.
For the one you are editing with, use a fast HDD, like Samsung's portable T5.

In DaVinci, add the clips from the T5 drive (XAVC-I) to your media pool and edit.
Since I'm mastering in HD, I have the Timeline Format in DaVinci set to 1920x1080HD.

I have the Optimized Media Resolution set to Choose Automatically, which sets the Optimized Media Format and Render Cache Format to ProRes 422HQ.

I then render out in ProRes 422HQ or whatever format is required for distribution.

Any changes to this?
 
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