Do you think it's possible to shoot an AMAZING feature for under $10,000?

Do you think it's possible to shoot an AMAZING feature for under $10,000?

  • Total voters
    157
Repost bump, sorry.... but.... "I can't believe that we are well over 700 posts in on a thread about uber low budget feature filmmaking and no one has yet brought up Rick Schmidt's "Feature Filmmaking at Used-Car Prices". What's up with that?"
 
I don't see the glass as half-empty. If I did, I never would have done anything myself. But if someone claims it's ALL full, it's not "negativity" to point out that it's only half-full. Particularly if by doing so they're simply ignoring the rest of the glass.
 
David G. Smith said:
Repost bump, sorry.... but.... "I can't believe that we are well over 700 posts in on a thread about uber low budget feature filmmaking and no one has yet brought up Rick Schmidt's "Feature Filmmaking at Used-Car Prices". What's up with that?"
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Or Bret Stern's "How to Shoot a Feature Film for Under $10,000 (And Not Go to Jail)." Too on the nose?
 
Nobody cares about that book, probably because it's really old, last revision something like year 2000, 11 years ago, which with the changes in the industry and technology is just beyond ancient. No doubt there are eternal truths to be glimpsed, but those can be had anywhere, so why this book? The only reason to buy it, is if it has current info of immediate relevance. That's why books like that, just as magazines are losing out - when you can get updates online down to the minute, why would you buy a magazine that has news from a month ago? Same deal here. You can't talk about an industry with a view point that's 11 years old. There are still a ton of valuable books out there, some from the 40's on filmmaking, but that's about the art, which is timeless. But how-to books that are over 10 years old (and this is a how-to book)? Sorry, don't see it. Here's one review of this book on Amazon:

This book is hopelessly outdated (as are my own), so I can't rate it any higher; but at least this guy is sincere. Some of the other reviewers act as if they expected the keys to the kingdom for under 20 bucks. And L Roc from Chi-town certainly got up on the wrong side of the crab dolly, except, of course, for hyping another book. In an age when you can buy your own production and editing equipment for under $10K, you don't need the strategies in this book or any other--save your money for tape stock--or to listen to the nay-sayers.
 
vcassel said:
I think, more than anything else, the interspersed calls to "well go do it" rather than discuss it are a bit disrespectful and distracting. To debate the question isn't necessarily a call to action. Besides, if everyone who uses this forum were expected to abandon it to involve themselves in something more practical, what use is it? We come here to discuss things like this, whether they're hypotheticals or not. Why should this particular thread change that?
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I don't think it's disrespectful... and distracting from this thread may be a good thing. Indeed, DVXUser is not just informative, it's inspirational... that is, motivational... therapeutic? "Go do it" is our mantra. We blab when we're not doing. We seek information when we're not doing. When we are not being at full potential. We are all one and all must do, or nothing is done, and discussion is yet another veil of illusion. We must be, and we will know. If we do, we will be. We am.
 
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OldCorpse said:
Nobody cares about that book, probably because it's really old, last revision something like year 2000, 11 years ago, which with the changes in the industry and technology is just beyond ancient. No doubt there are eternal truths to be glimpsed, but those can be had anywhere, so why this book? The only reason to buy it, is if it has current info of immediate relevance. That's why books like that, just as magazines are losing out - when you can get updates online down to the minute, why would you buy a magazine that has news from a month ago? Same deal here. You can't talk about an industry with a view point that's 11 years old. There are still a ton of valuable books out there, some from the 40's on filmmaking, but that's about the art, which is timeless. But how-to books that are over 10 years old (and this is a how-to book)? Sorry, don't see it. Here's one review of this book on Amazon:

This book is hopelessly outdated (as are my own), so I can't rate it any higher; but at least this guy is sincere. Some of the other reviewers act as if they expected the keys to the kingdom for under 20 bucks. And L Roc from Chi-town certainly got up on the wrong side of the crab dolly, except, of course, for hyping another book. In an age when you can buy your own production and editing equipment for under $10K, you don't need the strategies in this book or any other--save your money for tape stock--or to listen to the nay-sayers.
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Ha, Ha, Ha...!!! Richard, that is pretty much the kind of response that I expected. I think that it is pretty sad that we have come to the point where the only information that is relevant is from two minutes ago. That may explain why the "DSLR video revolution" has really only given us thousands of "Films" that are just montages of rack focus shots of the filmmakers back yard, or his girlfriend, or his travels through a big city.
 
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David G. Smith said:
Ha, Ha, Ha...!!! Richard, that is pretty much the kind of response that I expected. I think that it is pretty sad that we have come to the point where the only information that is relevant is from two minutes ago. That may explain why the "DSLR video revolution" has really only given us thousands of "Films" that are just montages of rack focus shots of the filmmakers back yard, or his girlfriend, or his travels through a big city.
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don't forget all the cats and dogs!
 
ullanta said:
Can you make an amazing film that faithfully presents the discussion in this thread for less than $10,000? For $10,000,000,000?
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Yeah, we could call it Three Mildly Preturbed Men.....
A director, a producer, and a writer all locked in a room together for a week discussing how to make their feature for $10,000.
 
OldCorpse said:
Nobody cares about that book, probably because it's really old, last revision something like year 2000, 11 years ago, which with the changes in the industry and technology is just beyond ancient. No doubt there are eternal truths to be glimpsed, but those can be had anywhere, so why this book? The only reason to buy it, is if it has current info of immediate relevance. That's why books like that, just as magazines are losing out - when you can get updates online down to the minute, why would you buy a magazine that has news from a month ago? Same deal here. You can't talk about an industry with a view point that's 11 years old. There are still a ton of valuable books out there, some from the 40's on filmmaking, but that's about the art, which is timeless. But how-to books that are over 10 years old (and this is a how-to book)? Sorry, don't see it. Here's one review of this book on Amazon:

This book is hopelessly outdated (as are my own), so I can't rate it any higher; but at least this guy is sincere. Some of the other reviewers act as if they expected the keys to the kingdom for under 20 bucks. And L Roc from Chi-town certainly got up on the wrong side of the crab dolly, except, of course, for hyping another book. In an age when you can buy your own production and editing equipment for under $10K, you don't need the strategies in this book or any other--save your money for tape stock--or to listen to the nay-sayers.
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This is a tough one. Usually things that are old, tried and true, eternally escavated, et cetera, are still around for a reason. It could be argued that Strunk and White's Elements of Style is the only book on writing prose one ever need read. Not only is it "old", but it's also ridiculously *short* (something that also sometimes persuades the uninitiate to think that a given material isn't worthwhile).

However, you did wedge your argument pretty specifically when you said that books on the craft itself can never truly be outdated, which is an absolute truth IMO.

So where do books like Rebel Without a Crew fit in when 16mm film and akward dubbing sessions on over-sized recorders aren't necessary anymore?

Personally I think that their value is retained in the stories that they tell. No one will ever write for you a book that will see you to the finish line. How could they? Everyone everywhere can only do what works for them and then report on their findings. It doesn't mean any of what they say will apply to you. To my memory I don't recall the world birthing another Smith, Tarantino or, for that matter, Rodriguez. But I'll still listen to their commentaries and read their books or blogs telling me how they've accomplished what they accomplished if only to find some common sense of spirit in how I strut down my own personal artistic path.

I wouldn't undervalue the experiences of others regardless of field, times or technology. If we leave ourselves open to it we will all be learning from one another until the day we die.

But to reinterate, no blog written today or book written 90 years ago is going to show you some magical yellow brick road to artistic contentedness and general success. The best we can hope to garner from any of this is some basic knowledge, pitfalls to beware of and the occasional satisfaction of examining a kindred plight.

"Kindred plight."

So that's what three whiskeys sounds like.
 
I think the books have a lot of value... things on how to manage cast and crew on a budget, especially how to keep 'em happy, how to plan locations and shooting schedules on a tight budget, many other things... I think most of the books are and always will be useful. We am.
 
David G. Smith said:
Wow, after a more that a few oat sodas.... That is very good. I am stealing it as we speak!! ... I won't give you credit... shaaaa, but if we ever meet, the oat sodas are on me!!! (or the whiskeys).
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Hey, you're from Detroit, I'm in Chicago.

We crap in the same water. It's all good.

;)
 
I don't know who Richard is, it's not my name, but whatevs. Anyhow, I'm not knocking any particular book, just speculating why it garners no interest. I understand it may seem sad, but you take the good with the bad. The good is that technology changes so fast that everybody these days can pretty much afford near-pro level tools, but the bad is that if you write a book which in great part depends on the newest technologies, well, naturally, that's unfortunately not going to be current in pretty short order. Also, don't forget, laws change from year to year, so advice regarding that is also going to be out of date. And then guild contracts change every time a new agreement is negotiated - and advice must change accordingly. All in all, like I said, if you are doing a "how to" book, that's the downside - 11 years, really is too long. But take a DVD like Barry and David did on lighting - that advice will mostly stand, because they're discussing principles, and the laws of physics stay much the same... it gives you tools, and you then decide what works for you artistically. So again, not knocking, just giving feedback - you asked about this book twice, I felt somebody ought to respond, sorry if I didn't do a good job.
 
I kind of like what David J said a few pages ago about all the talk of could, which would be nice to see someone, especially someone not working a full-time job, actually go out and do. Maybe someone on here will.

Rick Schmidt's book, Rodriguez Rebel Without Crew book, Dov Simens Reel to Deal. All of them offer good information, but if you really want to learn and improve on your filmmaking, you're simply going to have to get out and shoot. Fall down, skin your knees, pick yourself up and dust yourself off and do it again.

This short 1:30 clip from Tom Peters really sums it up.

 
vcassel said:
I think, more than anything else, the interspersed calls to "well go do it" rather than discuss it are a bit disrespectful and distracting. To debate the question isn't necessarily a call to action. Besides, if everyone who uses this forum were expected to abandon it to involve themselves in something more practical, what use is it? We come here to discuss things like this, whether they're hypotheticals or not. Why should this particular thread change that?
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The thing is, some people here talk from their own hard earned experience. Others here are just arguing for the sake of arguing and might argue differently if they had any real hard earned experience of their own.
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
The thing is, some people here talk from their own hard earned experience. Others here are just arguing for the sake of arguing and might argue differently if they had any real hard earned experience of their own.
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I do think there's a serious communication block between those who have done and those who haven't. Part of "go do it" is "see if you still think so when you're done."
 
OldCorpse said:
But take a DVD like Barry and David did on lighting - that advice will mostly stand, because they're discussing principles, and the laws of physics stay much the same... it gives you tools, and you then decide what works for you artistically.
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:) That is why we didn't tie it to any specific equipment. Hopefully it'll be as relevant 20 years from now as it is today.
 
I'd even make it simpler on people: go out and shoot a bunch of short films that are the equivalent running length of a feature and THEN come back and still see if you want to do that again for $10,000. At least you'll gain valuable experience and can cycle through crews so you're not severely wasting anyone's time who you ask to volunteer their services if your material is not up to snuff.
 
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