Discussion on the DVXFest submission acceptance policy

Zak Forsman

Zak Forsman

Major Contributor
During MonsterFest, a user submitted a film with a highly offensive title and little to no redeeming content, other than the fact that it sparked an interesting and worthwhile debate on whether the mods should or shouldn't reject films from screening in the fest based on their content.

The original thread fell victim to my attempt to move it out of the Monster's Lair (where the user films are located) and I accidentally deleted it instead. It's contents are unretrievable and I apologize sincerely for being such a bonehead.

Hopefully, we can continue that great discussion here, civilly and respectfully, knowing that we all want what's best for this community and this festival.
 
Heh heh.
:grin:
Zak is one of the best mods we've ever had. Great temperment, active, out there on the bleeding edge of indie filmmaking, generates tons of helpful content for memmbers, comes up and impliments so many great ideas behind the scenes ... I wish I could say this little (and hilarious tension breaking boo boo) made me feel slightly less inadequate, but nah, he still kicks ass.

Now where were we :)
 
zak feels bad... so, try not to give him too hard of a time :) Truth be told, we were both moderating the thread at the same time (trying to move it)... I was just moving the entire thread in my typical lazy way, and zak was parsing it up to separate the discussion from the actual film thread in his typical very thorough and thoughtful way, and our paths got crossed and it accidentally got axed in an unrecoverable way...

Tis a pity, but ah well... was good for a laugh :)
 
Having never seen the original thread I'll throw in the first thing that comes to my mind.

I believe that if an individual makes a film it should most definitely be allowed into the festival if it meets all the criteria. Zak, your film "I F*cking Hate You" also has an extremely offensive title (not to me, but I can understand how others might feel) but of course that short was excellently done. That film wasn't rejected because it had "redeeming value."

From the description you gave I don't know if the entire film this user posted was offensive, or if it was just the title that was offensive but the film itself was just poorly done. Either way, I feel like the success of the film will and should be determined by the community. If it is a badly done piece, the voting and feedback (civil!) will support that, but I do believe it should be given a chance to be judged by the viewers/voters.

Now if the entire film was offensive to watch that is a different beast entirely.

Edit to add: Also I think the decision needs to be reached as to whether these fests are on the path to evolve into more traditional "film festivals" with a screening period for entry or not. If not, then rejecting a film based on content no matter how bad I would view as unfair.
 
the film is not currently publicly available, but if anyone would like to view it for the purposes of open and honest discussion on this general topic of to censor or not to censor films based on content moving forward, please feel free to pm me, and I will provide you with a link to it.

It's interesting some folks response to the thought of censorship before and after viewing.

From the mods general perspective, while we do have forum etiquette guidelines that we strongly enforce, we distinguish that from the fests and what we feel as a privilege of freedom of artistic expression within the fests.

DVXFest has always been unique from other fests in that it is a: if you put in the time, and meet our basic guidelines, you will be viewed and have the opportunity to be rated and responded to. So, if we start censoring films based on content, it will completely go against the grain of the uniqueness of what the fests are at their very core. and, a whole lot of subjectivity comes in to play at that point. For example, Barry has stated strongly defended NOT censoring the films. And, he has also said that if we were censoring films based on content (beyond our hard r rating) that there are a good many films that would never have seen the light of day b/c of his own personal objections to their content. Some of those films have done very well in the fest, and have created other opportunities for the filmmakers. It's a big nasty can of worms if you go down that road... I don't know that there really is a happy middle ground. It seems (as of now) that you either don't censor films based on content, or you do, and it's completely subjective at that point, so there is no hard line once you start doing it.

This film has raised quite an interesting debate that was bound to happen sooner or later under this format and as the fests continue to grow. So, the side effect of this film is that we are now having this debate.

I just hope that folks very seriously consider the potential ramifications of a decision either way, as I do not feel it is a clear cut thing. An, obvious right thing to do.

Personally, the mods are all unified in the idea that we do NOT want to censor films based on content. That being said, we also fully acknowledge the increased likelihood that someone will now come along and use that "freedom" against the fest to make some kind of point, or just to see how far they can push it. So.... anyways... We're very interested in everyone's thoughts on this issue.

My own personal thoughts at the moment are... if you **** with us and take advantage of the artistic freedom that we provide in these fests, while your film may (or may not) screen, we most certainly will banish you from this community and all things Landmine for ever and eternity as someone who is hostile to the site and to the integrity and good intentions of what the fests are meant to be. Likewise, I hope that the members would appreciate that artistic freedom that they are afforded in DVXFest, champion it, and defend it with fervor, and brand anyone who seeks to destroy it as such, and approach veryyy cautiously the idea to want to begin censoring *any* film based on content b/c of something like this happening.

Those are kinda my personal thoughts anyways.

later,
jason
 
Take a poll. Not saying to go buy the results but you'll know where the majority stands.
 
Also I think the decision needs to be reached as to whether these fests are on the path to evolve into more traditional "film festivals" with a screening period or not. If not, then rejecting a film based on content no matter how bad I would view as unfair.
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I would like to think of these fests as exactly what I stated that they are in teh above post. If there ever is a branching of what we have going on here to something more "traditional" in nature, I would like to think of it as in addition to the standard dvxfest model, as opposed to insead of. Maybe it's a whole new fest with an entry fee... or it's taking the placing films from all the fests in a calendar year and having a more traditional style fest with those films, and/or filmmakers...

anyways, it is semi-related to this discussion, b/c if we do go down the road of censorship of content, then dvxfest could very likely begin to head in the direction of a more "traditional" style film festival. Personally, I'd like to see us have both at the very least, and not a one or the other.

later,
jason
 
But what if the next Lloyd Kaufman or Trey Parker was to enter into the fest? Hmmm. Of course you could argue that it depends on the venue you are choosing to show your work. You wouldn't show a gore flick at a Christmas fest and expect to get good results. So maybe it is a question of just what is dvxfest? Hehe.
 
Jason Ramsey said:
My own personal thoughts at the moment are... if you poo poo with us and take advantage of the artistic freedom that we provide in these fests, while your film may (or may not) screen, we most certainly will banish you from this community and all things Landmine for ever and eternity as someone who is hostile to the site and to the integrity and good intentions of what the fests are meant to be.
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I think that's a great summary right there... the perfect warning about the level of smackdown that should occur in the case of someone deliberately trying to game the system. The system in the case being any censorship.
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
I watch Black Christmas every Christmas eve. :evil:
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Was hoping somebody would say that. :2vrolijk_08:

I'm more of an anything goes type of guy. Well I mean me personally wouldn't do "anything" because I have my own standards and beliefs. But I am too laid back to be offended from somebody else. Somebody can call me a hillbilly saltine all day long but I'd just drink my shot and laugh or kick their ass. It would depend on what part of me was drinking that night, Irish, or Native American.
 
Jason Ramsey said:
My own personal thoughts at the moment are... if you poo poo with us and take advantage of the artistic freedom that we provide in these fests, while your film may (or may not) screen, we most certainly will banish you from this community and all things Landmine for ever and eternity as someone who is hostile to the site and to the integrity and good intentions of what the fests are meant to be. Likewise, I hope that the members would appreciate that artistic freedom that they are afforded in DVXFest, champion it, and defend it with fervor, and brand anyone who seeks to destroy it as such, and approach veryyy cautiously the idea to want to begin censoring *any* film based on content b/c of something like this happening.
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I agree with this as well Jason.
 
While important discussion may have resulted, I think what's frustrating is the unwarranted attention this film ended up getting. At what expense is it to the fest itself when the focus becomes controversy rather than the films? I have to say, my first reaction upon learning the thread was deleted was "GOOD! - back to films!" :)

I'm not for censorship. I can only make a comparison to comedians... there are some I find offensive and some I do not. The ones that bother me don't get any of my attention. I simply change the channel. However, I don't think they have no right to tell the jokes they do, however much I disagree.

In a perfect world, a film like the one in question would simply have garnered zero votes and either no feedback or negative feedback in appropriate proportion. Of course, this isn't a perfect world, so I'm not sure what the answer is other than to take each film on a case-by-case basis.

I will say this... something intentionally hateful in a racist/bigoted way probably needs to be handled the same way it would be in the "mainstream", whatever that may be. It makes me wonder what the rating would be on such a film and if there are "rules" on such things that push something to NC-17 because of racist/bigoted content (kinda like drug references automatically make a movie PG-13). I can't, right now, think of an example of a relatively current movie with a racist message - so I don't know.

Good luck to the mods and admins of DVXUser and the Fests... It takes a lot of time, resources and energy to run sites like this, and it's certainly a thorn in the side when situations like this arise.
 
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It's interesting that the fests have become popular enough that someone would make an effort and take the time to try to undermine the intended purpose. It's a shame that those types are out there, but I would qualify the phenomenon as a sign of the fests' success. There's a group out there on that each season tries to solicit votes for who they think is the worst singer/weakest contestant on American Idol. They do it just to humor themselves.

The fests here do allow quite a bit of creative freedom, and the members here have relished in pushing the limits, always looking for a way to think even further outside the box. I mean this in a good way; it's in the nature of artists to explore and find new ways to express ideas. The requirements for the fests have always been pretty loose on purpose.

So how does dvxuser respond in a situation where a member tries to undermine the system in this way? In practical terms, it's pretty easy to simply disqualify the film, but I appreciate the moderators' concerns about starting down a road of censorship, however well intended. After all, who's to say what has redeeming content or not?

On the other hand, dvxuser is a moderated board, there are standards and rules to which the members must comply. I've seen enough here to believe that the moderators have the interests of the community and its members in mind when they make decisions, and I have trust in them to decide when a film is inappropriate for the fest based on its content and intentions (not that I always agree with every decision they've ever made, I certainly don't). However I'm sure that they would be more than willing to entertain a discussion from the filmmaker if he wanted to make a good-faith case about his intentions or why the film should be included in the fest.

The fests have a positive purpose; when someone intentionally decides to undermine the system for his own amusement, I don't have a problem with that film being disqualified.
 
The film should be put back in the fest, and it should be judged on its technical merits as expressed by the filmmaker.
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Just to clear up this little bit, the film was never eligible for competition in the first place b/c of a violation of the credit requirement (the credits were too long)

Anything less is censorship, and opens the door for every film in the future to be judged on its offensive-factor.
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Would tend to agree with this (well, part of it), and that is why we are having this discussion b/c quite a few people initially called for us to censor it, and couldn't believe that we would allow it to air. So, our question is if people really want us to begin going down that road. We really don't want to. At the same time, we also recognize that there is near 100% chance that someone out there will purposefully try to use that against us next fest and make something utterly pointless and with the sole purpose of attacking the integrity of the fests, the site, or the freedom of artistic expression that (in the past) they have always allowed. So, the question is, do people want to let one idiot take that away from the fests.. The one thing that makes them unique from most any other fest out there... Or, do people want to forget about that if they come across something that they find absolutely offensive... Or, do people want to champion the privilege of artistic expression and the open-ness of (we dont' screen for content or quality beyond our Hard R rating, and our other simple guidelines) and bury anyone who would try to use that against their fests.
 
I laughed my ass off!

These kids were just trying to have fun (in my opinion) and I think they feel like gutter sluts for it.

I have always said do the opposite and you'll get noticed.

I do hope they come back. It was funny as hell and you guys know it.
 
sorry ramasaur... I know it looks like that was directed at you now... it wasn't was to another member who now deleted their posts....

I've edited it out, so it doesn't look like I was yelling at you :)

later,
jason
 
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