DISCOVERY's position on HVX

Jim Carswell

Well-known member
Hey folks. New poster here. I've been following things here for quite a while as the HVX has taken its initial steps in the market. One of my concerns has been about whether the camera will be accepted by the Discovery family of networks. As a result, I contacted a friend of mine who heads up Discovery's video on demand side of things about the HVX's acceptability. He used to head up production at Animal Planet before making the move to on demand... that's where I know him from. He forwarded to me a Discovery document detailing the acceptance of the HVX and P2. The document was written by Josh Derby who is the Manager of Technical Standards and Operations.

The memo is as follows:

Panasonic P2 technology represents the next generation of acquisition formats, cameras that record files to re-usable media and enable truly tapeless production and post production. The day for that technology is certainly coming but there are questions as to whether its time has tryly arrived. P2 cards are expensive and are in no way disposable, nor are they intended to be stored as camera masters. As DCI requires producers to deliver original camera masters for all original and comissioned projects, the concept of fixed media poses a challenge. There may be a time in the future where DCI will be prepared to handle digital file-based delivery from its producers but until that time P2 will be governed by the following restrictions.

1. Material captured using P2 for commissions and original productions must be cloned to an approved tape format for final delivery to DCI. Tapes should be cloned in such a way as to ensure that they are properly referenced in the program's final EDL or NLE project with proper timecode and tape name.

2. The program producer must demonstrate that workflow cost savings achieved by using the P2 format will cancel the expense of the transfer to tape.

3.Material for standard definition must be captured on P2 in the DVCPRO 50 codec. Material for high definition programs must be captured in the DVCPRO 100 codec.

4. The Panasonic HVX200 camera, which can record video in HD standards onto P2 media, has not been approved for unrestricted HD acquisition. While this camera records HD video onto the recording media the optical performance of the camera is closer to the performance of an HDV than to a oprofessional 2/3" camera system. Consequently, HD media captured using this camera will be governed by the HDV guidelines. The HVX200 may be used in the DVCPRO format for unrestricted Standard Definition capture.

That's the gist of the policy as it was sent to me. If there are any typos... they are mine. The bottom line here is that, as this policy states, only a small percentage of an HD production for DCI can be shot with the HVX. Some of you may already be aware of this. I was not. And as a result I'm very disappointed.

I remain an incredible fan of this camera and provide this information for discussion purposes.

Jim Carswell
Spyhop Productions, Inc
Savannah, GA
 
Discovery should change their name to the lame channel. I'm sure they will eventually come around to a more reasonable position.
-A
 
I believe that DCIs position on HDV is that the final edit must be uprezzed to HDCam. No big deal.

e
 
That's been my experience anyway. Don't worry, DCI will come around - P2 workflow (HDD deliverables) will likely be a new standard in 18 months.

e
 
Jim Carswell said:
...Consequently, HD media captured using this camera will be governed by the HDV guidelines.

I'm curious as to what the specific HDV Guidelines are... since those are the guidelines which must be adhered to.

edit: looks like my question was answered. Jim, if you can get your hands on their official memo re: HDV, that would be much
appreciated!!!
 
Uprez to HDCam. They also say on paper that they limit ratios between HDCam sourced and HDV sourced material. I don't know exactly what that number is, but I can find out.

e
 
Here's a follow up regarding DCI's acceptance of HDV.

Their policy states:

Non HD footage limitations:
Maximum of 25% non-HD material is allowed in production, with no more than 1-minute of contiguous non-HD footage in any sequence.

Use of HDV Footage:
1080 line HDV footage may be used in HD programs with the following restrictions:
- Program may not contain any more than 15% HDV footage.
- The combined percentage of HDV and SD upconverted footage is not to exceed 30%.
- Producers wishing to use HDV must submit an approved post production path outlining their handling of the footage in the editing process.


It's my opinion that all of this may be negotiable. We've all seen plenty of DV footage aired on the DCI networks... sometimes entire shows. And their policy states no or limited DV. So, it may all be worked out in how much DCI pays for the show.
 
Excuse my ignorance folks. How do you up-res HDV or DVCproHD to HDcam? Is this a function of a Blackmagic or AJA device? Or is it a software based function of FCP?

Thanks,
Jim
 
hm,
when filming in ruff terrain I would rather carry a HVX (and an extra one for backup) than a pimped out varicam, then again I don´t wanne miss a ENG style lens when speed and fast response is an issue...
But I guess when your name is synonym with documentaries, you probably get very cautious about quality issues...
 
Wow, they REQUIRE you to output to tape, then recapture using the tapes as the time code source. That completely defeats the advantages of P2 storage. Great!!!!!

good thing nothing I am doing in the next year is desitned for their channel. Or 2 years even.
 
Yeah.. you gotta remember its a new workflow.. But im sure once Varicams start using P2 they will adopt it a whole lot quicker.
 
Plus on Discovery HD there are many programs that use up-rezzed SD material. Certain historical events were covered with the video flavor of the day. I guess they are afraid of getting an entire program submitted in HD with no masters to sell stock footage from later.
They want your source material for their purposes later on down the road so having a digital file on P2 upsets the Apple cart. I would much rather have a load of .mxf files instead of tape. The first thing you do with a tape is digitize it. I can access .mxf from my PC with a two-hundred dollar program.(Raylight) And I would bet that FCP 6 will add this capability. Avid and Adobe will have to catch up.
 
Would not P2 to AJ-HD1200A via Firewire = Camera Master?
1. No recompression
2. Archive Master
3. HD-SDI to HDCam transfers
 
The location workflow would be shoot P2, run full P2's to a PA or tech to Firewire to AJ-HD1200A, Format P2's and run empty's back to camera units. DCI would have camera masters.
 
If any of you have seen Discovery's "The Deadliest Catch," 95% of the show is shot with small hand-held dv cameras (interlaced). Two cameramen per boat (with lots of back-up cameras). One of the crew members said that less than half of the cameras make it back to port "alive." Not surprising with 30 foot waves and 34 degree water (in the Bering Sea).
 
Aren't we basically talking about meeting DCI's **HD**requirements? I'm sure in SD broadcast, good DV is acceptable.

Interesting that P2 presents a problem for them. I'm pretty sure the H1's HDV is actually approved for full acquisition, believe it or not.
 
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