Digital Bolex has stopped making cameras!

Razz16mm said:
It was always going to be a niche market camera by intent, like the Ikonoskop before it at twice the price. Even niche markets have their limits when it comes to product cost. Unfortunately this is an expensive camera to make, production costs were apparently taking a spike upwards for the next run making its market appeal at a higher price questionable in a 4k market...
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Why would costs be going up when, everywhere else, costs are going down?


NorBro said:
I've owned many (too many) BM cameras. The company needs improvement everywhere; no doubt.

But it's not all about the specs on paper. Image is king, and a variety of cameras with great-looking specs, features, ergonomics, etc. may have a mediocre image.
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Image may be king but, these days, there's not much difference between (properly) graded images from a slew of low budget cameras. Sure, Red Weapon (or Panavision version of the same), F65 and Alexa65 will look better to a pro and jobs will still be easier to get with a high end camera but, overall, most oversampled 4K sensors are going to deliver an amazing image quality. And then the main difference will center around the workflow. A Sony A6300 or A7s/II with an external recorder - I saw your video, let's not forget - already looks gorgeous. Anything beyond that is picking nits.
 
If you truly believe that the cheapest cameras are really delivering pretty much the same image quality as the ones that are even just a little more expensive, then you might as well buy the cheapest thing you can get and be happy to settle. There must really be no point to all that other stuff and everyone is just fooling themselves.
 
Mitch Gross said:
If you truly believe that the cheapest cameras are really delivering pretty much the same image quality as the ones that are even just a little more expensive, then you might as well buy the cheapest thing you can get and be happy to settle...
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Well, first of all, I like NorBro's A6300&External Recorder or Casey Wilson's A7S& External video's image quality a lot more than FS7's (at least, those clips that I have seen). Now, would Weapon/Panavision be superior in some sort of a side-by-side shootout? Let's assume so. But would an A6300 & External Recorder or A7S/II & External Recorder or GH4 & External Recorder look excellent in and of themselves? When in qualified hands, they do too.

And the external recorders - monitoring functions aside - can be rendered superfluous if the OEM's upped their internal bit rate or allowed internal (compressed) Raw anyway. And, historically, as the photo-video science advances, the difference in image quality between the affordable and the mid-high gear gets narrower and narrower with every passing time frame. That's the natural life cycle of many a product.
 
Thank you - I always appreciate it!

The A6300 is truly a special little camera that squeezes every bit of quality that it can out of itself and then doesn't work anymore, lol.
 
DLD said:
Why would costs be going up when, everywhere else, costs are going down?


Image may be king but, these days, there's not much difference between (properly) graded images from a slew of low budget cameras. Sure, Red Weapon (or Panavision version of the same), F65 and Alexa65 will look better to a pro and jobs will still be easier to get with a high end camera but, overall, most oversampled 4K sensors are going to deliver an amazing image quality. And then the main difference will center around the workflow. A Sony A6300 or A7s/II with an external recorder - I saw your video, let's not forget - already looks gorgeous. Anything beyond that is picking nits.
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Cost increases can come regardless of tech if your supplier all of a sudden wants you to buy several times your normal production run quantities to maintain pricing. Truesense got bought by ON-semi, a large international conglomerate. Building any CCD camera to begin with is roughly four times the cost of a similar CMOS camera. The entire production cost of a BMPCC in the box ready to sell is less than the one off cost of the scientific instrument grade CCD sensor package in the Bolex. That does not include any support electronics. The D16 is a robust well made camera that will stand up to demanding production environments. All of the circuit boards are conformally coated, so they are dust and moisture proof. There are so many little engineering touches to the camera that make it more expensive to produce, but also make it a better more reliable longer lasting piece of kit, much like its namesake. Too bad that such attention to quality and detail gets ignored in today's sub $5k markets.

When it comes to IQ perfection is relative to purpose. What works just fine for posting low end web videos may not look very good on a large theater screen at all. Personally I loathe 8-bit 4:2:0 AVC compressed codecs for original acquisition. I understand the convenience, but it definitely comes at a heavy price in IQ and creative flexibility in post. I've coded out 200Mbps XAVC 4:2:2 10 bit from 800Mbps uncompressed 10 bit masters and was disappointed with the visible IQ losses, a mere 4:1 compression. The differences are subtle, but definitely noticeable, even though it still looks very good.
 
NorBro said:
Thank you - I always appreciate it!

The A6300 is truly a special little camera that squeezes every bit of quality that it can out of itself and then doesn't work anymore, lol.
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Well, now I know why you keep buying BMD - you prefer cameras that "don't work anymore"! (hey, when you need a cigarette/potty break, is there a better excuse?)

As to cameras image quality for the buck, even A6300 records more information than a home viewer with an HDR set (and how many folks own a 4K HDR set as of today?) can access. Obviously, one prefers a greater DR and resolution in the original file before the final output is rendered but those differences are becoming more minute by the minute. Or second.

PS. Razz, thanks for the reply. I realize that some sensors cost way more than others (even the URSA Mini STM runs ~ $1,200 in quantity of one) but, IMO, this supports my earlier point. From the investment perspective, the DB was already starting behind the proverbial 8-ball, with the market condition deteriorating with every passing month, as more and more 4K cameras and external recorders in all price ranges began to show up on the stores shelves.
 
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The Digital Bolex project was started by a frustrated S16mm film cinematographer who was dissatisfied with the quality of any sub $10k compressed video alternative. The goal was to produce a practical rugged S16mm film camera replacement specifically for 2k digital cinema production, not another video camera. In that it is a resounding success and certainly remarkable that it came to exist at all.
It handily exceeds the performance of any 16mm film stock I ever shot with for resolution, color depth, and dynamic range. It's ISO sensitivity range is similar to modern film stocks. But most of all it is blessedly free of all the common digital video artifacts that plague low end compressed video CMOS cameras, 4k or not. It is the camera I have waited 30 years for to replace my own film Bolexes. The ISO ratings are calibrated to expose accurately to a light meter reference. 200 ISO is dead on by my old Sekonic L398. It shoots like a film camera.
Some 30 independent theatrical feature films have been shot on the D16 in the last two years, many not yet released.
 
Razz16mm and other DB users;

I'm considering buying a pre-owned D16 myself but have some concerns if there is no ongoing support available.

Does anyone know where one could get repairs and technical support, firmware downloads etc, now that the company has shut down?

Is there a DB16 user group still active?

Thanks for any info. I've been admiring the Kodak CCD image since the Ikonoskop but been putting off a purchase for far too long!
 
The camera manufacturer is Ienso in Toronto Canada. They will provide service for the cameras going forward. Typically this means for at least 7 years under North American trade law.
The Digital Bolex CTO is Ienso's CTO, Mike Liwak. There was no financial distress or company failure here. They just made a decision not to continue the product based on market conditions and apparently significant production cost increases for the next run. Digital Bolex was a branding/marketing company partnership between Ienso, Joe Rubenstein, and Elle Schneider.
The D16 is an extremely robust well made camera that should last a long time with reasonable care. Internal batteries and SSD's would be about the only long interval maintenance items.

http://www.digitalcameradesign.com/

IENSO Inc.

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Dear Razz16mm.

Thanks for the very helpful information.

Just a couple of other things;

1. Is there an ongoing user forum?

2. Is there somewhere to download the most recent available firmware?
 
amathie said:
Dear Razz16mm.

Thanks for the very helpful information.

Just a couple of other things;

1. Is there an ongoing user forum?

2. Is there somewhere to download the most recent available firmware?
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We mostly hang out at Digital Bolex User on Facebook. There are downloads in the files section there for firmware and the utilities to install it, plus other useful stuff. Sign up! You will be welcome. Cameras for sale are often posted there first.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/digitalbolexuser/
 
Actually, just one last question which I wasn't able to answer from a copy of the V1.0 user guide I downloaded; is it possible to play back footage recorded onto CF card in camera and review it on an external monitor via the HDMI port?
 
amathie said:
Actually, just one last question which I wasn't able to answer from a copy of the V1.0 user guide I downloaded; is it possible to play back footage recorded onto CF card in camera and review it on an external monitor via the HDMI port?
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With the latest 1.5.1 firmware it is possible to play back video from the in camera SSD via the HDMI monitor port. CF's are just for backup and offload. The camera never records directly to CF.
 
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