Different types of Diffusion

jambredz

jambredz

Veteran
I love soft lighting. That said...do you guys know a source that I can learn about different types of diffusion used in front of lights. I'm aware there are many. But apart from the standard silk and opal I'm not 2 knowledgeable about them. I'd love to know the different types of silks/diffusion and the different looks each can achieve to add to my arsenal. (oh and where to buy them :) )
 
I believe that ROSCO had a comparison chart of their various diffusion products on the web site.
Hope this helps.
Ken
 
Man... I've been dialing in soft light over something like 2 decades, for stills and motion. I'm never in a situation where I'm asked for a specific product though.

My take on the whole thing is to have some different "grades" - 1/4 stop, 1/2 stop, etc. I don't use anything thicker than that for scrims or large diffusion panels. As far as sticking a sheet in a lighting gel - once you add a large scrim, it barely makes a difference.

The one thing I do use a lot is white mesh - cheap polyester mesh (like for cheap bridal trains or floral displays). And I have a big roll of cotton gauze. You hold on to some sense of "hardness" but the shadows open somewhat.

I've even used the tissue paper that comes between gel sheets over flos. Maybe I'm weird, but I just think of the density/translucency of the material, not a specific item number. My take is that subject > diffusion > light source distance relationship + size of the panel or sheet is the first major key; translucence is the next. Most people fail with soft light by not using a big enough panel with the light far enough back to fill the panel - they wonder why softboxes aren't "soft" in a room scene. Gel-sized sheets of diffusion just aren't as useful (for my style anyway).
 
+1 for the cheap white polyester mesh.

I also have black mesh of different grades, all form a fabric store.

Frank
 
thanks guys. yeh i like to use 6x6 silks to get a nice soft light. nice tip with the mesh...is that the same as rip stop nylon? I also asked because I think i saw a video with a rental house guy explaining different diffusion and that this one particular silk/overhead would cause a slight glow effect on the skin. I mean i know u can get that with filters also...but i was really interested to hear that when he mentioned it.
 
lately I've had a chance to blast HMI's through 3 stops on a scrim jim frame - huge light loss, huge bounce back, but on the other side its like heaven !
 
on the most recent feature (and the commercial before this one) we have been using a lot of light grid (1/4 and 1/2 mainly). I really enjoy the look it has.
 
Reading the last few replies...

I have a mess of Scrim Jim stuff - but I don't see much difference between 1/2 stop and the thick stuff other than losing a ton of light. A lot of it comes down to how much of the frame you "fill" with the light. I sometimes sort of loosely cover the source with a diffusion sheet before blasting a scrim, sort of "arc" a whole sheet across... that will fill a scrim in a tight space.

White mesh - very different than ripstop. Ripstop is solid white fabric with a grid of threads in the weave that... stops rips in their tracks. White mesh is more like a butterfly net. It's netting, not solid. Think of a bride's veil.

Black mesh - doesn't much soften the light, just acts like an ND (if ya ask me), same as metal screen scrims over a hot light. Kind of handy with flo's though - just wrap it around and around when you need to dim a flo.

If you don't have frames, just hang white fabric over a boom arm - you can make a floor-to-ceiling soft source... and that is very soft. I've thrown up (essentially) softboxes that are 10' wide by ceiling height when you want just heavenly soft light. Just sheer white fabric from the fabric store over conduit.
 
Michael Carter said:
but I don't see much difference between 1/2 stop and the thick stuff other than losing a ton of light.
Click to expand...

You see the difference when you look into the frame. When your push truckloads of light through two or three layers at 1 stop each layer then the entire panel lights up evenly. Yes you lose a ton of light but the benefit is there's no hot spot in the middle. It looks really good when close to the subject – or if your camera is pointed at the frame so the light wraps and the edge of your talent disapears. Like this ...

4e92b46e76dff.jpg
 
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Ahh, I got ya - when stacking diffusion.

I don't know that I've done a shot where the diffusion source was part of the composition - when I've done that look it's been full length fashion, so I'll hit white seamless and backlight with a striplight on each side (due to needing a cyc-style look with feet visible).
 
I have a comparative chart I'm finishing up where I take every kind of diffusion I could find...at least 20 different Lee brands as well as some specialty things too, bleached Muslin, 1000h, black silk, etc. I pushed a 10k through each frame at 20', 14', and 4' and took pictures. I'm trying to put together the PDF now, but it's just taking a little while...lots and lots of pictures to go through.

Should have some time to finish it up today though
 
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RyanT said:
I have a comparative chart I'm finishing up where I take every kind of diffusion I could find...at least 20 different Lee brands as well as some specialty things too, bleached Muslin, 1000h, black silk, etc. I pushed a 10k through each frame at 20', 14', and 4' and took pictures. I'm trying to put together the PDF now, but it's just taking a little while...lots and lots of pictures to go through.
Click to expand...

Ryan, thats sounds awesome. Why don't you make a site instead of a PDF?
edit: if you do want to turn it into a site, hit me up as I would be interested in helping you on on that
 
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I'm just good with photoshop, but not so much at web design. If someone wants to make it into a website, by all means you can take the info and do it up. PDF is just an easier way for me to go. I might distribute the photoshop file as well, as if you have photoshop it's a really easy way to compare to types of diffusion side by side, which is a little difficult to do with the PDF.

What I have is not the best as well, you'll see. But I think I may go back for a second time around and do it with some sort of chart. Something a little more scientific, as I just shot a face and swapped the frames. Had some issues with spill and the fill...but ah. I should probably finish up and you'll see what I'm talking about! Going to work on it now.
 
About the site - 'stick to what you know' is often the best approach !
Please put me on the list of people to contact when the pdf is done, my email and cell are in the header of jdmax.com
 
Ryan that Test you have is really helpful man. I just looked on it for about 5 mins ...later when i get time to really look on it i can give better feedback. But man this is really helpful for people looking to purchase different types of diffusion. A very helpful reference.
 
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As crazy as this sounds they work great. I own a laundromat, and one day I was changing out some lint screens and thought, hey this would make a decent scrim for diffusion. I tried it, works great, you can get different sizes, white , black. stack them for stopping light, and their rated for high heat. their only about ten bucks to, metal frame. here's what im talking about.
http://www.pwslaundry.com/i-1023340-speed-queen-m400522-dryer-assy-lint-screen-st-73.html
 
maranfilms said:
As crazy as this sounds they work great. I own a laundromat, and one day I was changing out some lint screens and thought, hey this would make a decent scrim for diffusion. I tried it, works great, you can get different sizes, white , black. stack them for stopping light, and their rated for high heat. their only about ten bucks to, metal frame. here's what im talking about.
http://www.pwslaundry.com/i-1023340-speed-queen-m400522-dryer-assy-lint-screen-st-73.html
Click to expand...

How large is the frame? I can't tell much from the picture there.

- Greg
 
A lot of rental houses will just give you scrap gel if you let them know you're a student and just ask. They'll usually get tons of gels coming back from big movies that go hog-wild with their expendables budget and don't want anything to do with their gels after the fact.

Just might be a good way to start out, building up a little diffusion collection.

I've decided to start a little cinematography blog, and my first post will be that diffusion test...I'll post it when it's done.
 
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