T2i did I make a mistake over the GH1?

S

-Sandro-

Well-known member
Hello,
I'm new but I've been following the forum for months, well..from google :P

I'd like some comments on my very new doubt, did I make a mistake choosing the T2i over the GH1 considering this:

My story is that I've always loved shooting videos with my friends for trips and vacations, made some shorts too. Mainly I love to make music videos of trips.
I've owned many DV cameras, some months ago going to NYC I was ready to make the jump and buy the canon HV40 from B&H to save money thanks to the USD/EUR exchange rates. Some weeks before I discovered that Canon finally turned a DSLR into a "video camera" or better yet Canon put a proper and amazing video mode on a reflex camera (yes I also like to take pics) and with that sensor size, fast prime lenses, 1080p 24p, 720p60 and pics too is was a no brainer: 2 in 1. I bought it right away since it was a dream of a lifetime come true...well don't get me wrong it still is!

I was aware of the moiré problem of those cameras but considering what the competition was offering and the quality I could achieve I thought that it still was a must buy for me. "problems" appeared when using the camera I noticed that while making tests in resolutions in adobe premiere (and yes full hd monitor with high bitrates) starting from a 1080p file the difference between 480p and 720p rendered files was noticeable but nothing "OMG!" and the difference between 720p and 1080p of the same scene was almost zero, just some details more clear!
So I started some research and discovered an huge world of people complaining and some explaining that Canon engineers gracefully decided to use line skipping method so basically the camera does output a FAKE 1080p! Isnt this false advertisement BTW ??
ANYWAY...following this I recently read about the hack on the GH1, I was aware of this camera before buying the T2i but reading the specs and bitrates (AND PRICE) I never considered it. So, as I was saying, I was looking some samples and comparison videos between the GH1 and t2i/7d and....I wanted to kill myself, just kidding :engel017: but seriously the GH1 looks soooo much better, no moiré, the image comes to life, detailed and SO sharp that makes even the 5d cry, in fact while watching comparison videos side by side the canons look soft and like a bad upscaled 720p :( while the GH1 looks better than my Planet Earth BluRay:evil:

That's what I think
- lenses: they say that the GH1 has virtually no limits. ?? Doesn't the Canons have a lot of choices between companies like Canon, Tamron, Tokina, Sigma. Can't the canons use the various adapters they make for Nikon lenses too? So what's the point here? I see that every lens of the GH1 needs an adapter for every mount and will not work with every lens of that mount. so I suppose more final costs, how do we control aperture of those lens? Will they work for pictures too?

-autofocus: well the AF on the GH1 is outstanding, I'll probably never use it though cause I LOVE MF for video. But we're still back to same point. the AF only works on the kit lens, so what about other lenses with adapters? No AF? Plus the kit lens is like the kit lens of the canons for the aperture so "unusable" at night

-video quality: GH1 wins hands down over the full frame 5d too! the shots of the GH1 are crystal clear!

According to 7d/t2i users did I make a mistake buying the t2i for video mode? Or there's some kind of hope that Canon will solve this downscale crap with a firmware? Or, even if this is a very LITTLE gratification, could we hope that Canon will make the next DSLRs with a good downscale so that the image will match or surpass the GH1 one so I will be able to solve my problem by selling my t2i and buy the one while still being able to use all of my lenses ?

Sorry for this long post but when I watched GH1 footage, my footage looked like I had some problems with my eyes due to the bad upscale so image my disappointment as a new (on a no-budget) buyer!

Thanks :smile:
 
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I have owned an HVX200, an EX-1 and a 7D.


I guess there are numerous ways to answer your own question.
Are you happy with the results?
If not, are you willing to figure out whether or not it is pilot error before moving on?
Do you think that the t2i footage (there is plenty of varying quality) that others are producing and posting is not to your taste?

I think that there are two major categories to consider.

1) The finished product.

2) The Workflow (with a capital W, meaning everything =pros and cons from beginning to delivery)

I shoot exclusively (for now) with the 7D. In spite of the issues and workarounds (which all cameras have) the 7D provides the finished product that I like and that clients are very pleased with. It does the job. It is not designed as a video camera so I don't complain about it's design. I work with it, and to me it is not difficult to work with. If at some point it no longer does what I need it to then I will find something else.

When I made my choice I based it on what I saw with my own eyes (purely taste) and what information was available about the Workflow.

I completely understand how hard it is to put money down without being sure, but everyone starts there to some degree or other.

The Camera A .vs. Camera B threads wil go on forever. Your own experience will teach you so that you don't need to ask (although asking is good if have not yet gained the necessary experience).

I would say that if you shoot as much as possible and learn the ins and out of the camera that you have, your next choice (and if you keep at it there will be other camera choices down the pike) will be much easier. Even your decision to swap to the GH-1 will be easier.

You can use the forum to get help in learning the full limits of the t2i . . .

If you just can't stand the limitations you know what to do.


Hope this helped
 
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These products are not the same, even though they're marketed towards the same basic customer. If one does what you want, and the other one doesn't, then... it's pretty easy to know which one you want. if the one you've got is not the one you want, then -- that's what ebay is for.

Keep in mind that the GH1 is either discontinued, or will be soon; it's being replaced by a GH2.
 
Funny cause I feel completely different. To me the Gh1 looks more like video to me and when I owned one I simply did not like it at all. Also the gh1 has BAD and I mean really BAD problems with low light. Banding is horrible and it is something I could not stand.


So while in your opinion you might think the gh1 looks better, many and I mean MANY people feel different. But just like Barry said sell your t2i and buy a gh1 then.
 
I own 2 Gh1(3)'s. Well Ill be selling the other one for sure...Not for a T2i but for a 7D...all because of what life4eva said...." the gh1 has BAD and I mean really BAD problems with low light"...I wouldn't say really bad..but bad enough that I would need to have a great lowlight camera. Ill be honest with you...The GH1 hacked is crisp..is sharp..yes it is said that it is as close to the Red and better than the 5DM2...WITH GREAT LIGHTING! I throw on some fast lens and go look for a candle light and I see noise and banding.
And no, not many people feel different. I will say that ever since the GH1 hack revolution that the views on this website lopsided ever since. Double even triple the viewers "GH1" to the Canon "T2i,7D" thread. The bugs are still there and its not perfect yet..you will get card errors if you try a real high bit rate...etc.
I am pretty happy with my GH1 but if I had a choice and money was not an issue...Id still go for the Grand Daddy of them all ...The 5DM2.
 
Judging by how "sharp" footage matters to you, then yes, the GH1 is the better choice. In fact, you're probably better served with a video camera rather than a DSLR.
 
Own both.
Love both.
The only mistake you've made is asking this question after you bought a cam.
IMHO both rock, they each have their work arounds but both rock.
If you feel bad about your t2i footage, do some looking around at others footage that made you choose the cam in the first place. Ask questions and see if your getting the most out of your cam that you can be. Chances are you might just get your cam to look the way you wanted it to when you bought it in the first place.-Rock-Adam
 
well i've got both and intend to build up multiple groups of both 550d's and (now) GH2's. Here are some things not yet mentioned:

(1) forget about using the canons in full daylight - practically impossible for focusing and for exposure metering (unless you spot meter with a grey card). You can't see anything. The GHx's have an awesome EVF that is very very easy to both judge exposure (yes, you can calibrate the EVF independent of the LCD) and pull focus with your 30yr old manual glass. If you're indoors, then this becomes irrelevant and the LCD on the 550D is absolutely super for pulling focus with.

(2) steadicam'ing with the canons sucks because the LCD does not articulate - well, the new one does. anytime you're at the floor or overhead, it is no fun and you can't see if you're in focus until you review in camera. if you're only using wides with 10ft to ~, then no biggie; but if you are trying to pull off cool flying shots with shallow DOF, then this is a big problem. my solution was to mount my 7" LCD in the hotshoe and articulate as needed - more hardware hassles though. if you're using the GHx, then just move the screen LOL!

(3) the crop factor is a big deal IMO. 1.6x on the 550D is ABSOLUTELY perfect when you need fast glass for indoor shooting. The GHx's crop factor difference between the canons IS big enough that (1) lensing the cam with very fast glass becomes an issue (both in terms of price and availability) and (2) spatial orientation between you and your subject matter CAN become an issue in cramped spaces, esp if you are using these cameras for beauty/shallow DOF shots.

(4) the 12 min time limit on the canons is a big problem for event shooting when you want to set up unmanned cameras, and you're going to have more hassles in sync'ing audio in post because you have to do it for all of the clips instead of just once with the GHx's (assuming drift is not a problem). DSLRs are not the best choice for wide shots anyway because they all have moire problems, but in a pinch, the GHx's will perform admirably by themselves, freeing you up to get the shallow DOF glam shots. With the canons, you're going to have to keep hitting the record button until they overheat; after which point, you're going to have to shut them off and let them cool down (in my experience, you can get 4-6 12min continuous clips in conditioned indoor temps before seeing the red thermometer).
 
Yes the Gh13 provides a nice 'sharp" image but I do not like that look. If you have even seen film you would know that it is slightly soft more natural look then the gh13 razor sharp video look.


Also if you just want sharpness then just get an HMC40 or something, personally i love the look Canons do and with some color correction you can get some nice footage to resemble film. This was shot on a t2i






http://philipbloom.net/2010/03/20/saltonsea/

NOT MY VIDEO CLIP, it is from Phillip Bloom.

*While not perfect this is just 1 of a few examples that can be achieved with the t2i and some nice glass and of course some amazing know how from an excellent user ( Phillip Bloom , this is NOT my footage )
 
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So I started some research and discovered an huge world of people complaining and some explaining that Canon engineers gracefully decided to use line skipping method so basically the camera does output a FAKE 1080p! Isnt this false advertisement BTW ??
Click to expand...


This is absolutely new to me. Is the 550d a "fake 1080p camera"?
 
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WOW guys I wasn't expecting all those answers! Thanks.

First of all I'd like to say that I'm very satisfied with the t2i especially with the low light shots with the canon 50mm f/1.8! Yes one of the main reasons I chose this DSLR as a camera is because I often am in the position of shooting at night in the cities and in this case apparently the GH1 fails.

I definitely cannot afford to make those changes with the GH1 + lenses + adapters considering the price over the t2i, but I was tempted after seeing the hack results.
Yes the t2i look is much better and preferable for certain project, but I think that if I wanna make a documentary-like video (for example landscapes of some beach cities) the sharpness of the GH1 it just fits and cannot be beaten by the canons - I think.
I'm just gonna stick to it and use it as much as I can :) I just started this thread cause I was amazed of the clarity of the GH1 hoping that Canon will fix the problems or make better video downscaling cause I think the quality that can be achieved is a waste in this way!
The thing that doesn't convince me at all (considering this could be fixed with new firmwares) is that why would Canon put this engineers at work to fix this for every camera instead of making a new product, advertise on it and EARN from the -NEW- quality...it's not like they didn't know about the video processing they were using and moire/aliasing artifacts


It always comes to same thing: every product has its downsides and advantages over another one
 
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Francesco Dal Bosco said:
So I started some research and discovered an huge world of people complaining and some explaining that Canon engineers gracefully decided to use line skipping method so basically the camera does output a FAKE 1080p! Isnt this false advertisement BTW ??



This is absolutely new to me. Is the 550d a "fake 1080p camera"?
Click to expand...


look here http://notesonvideo.blogspot.com/2010/01/canon-7d-what-resolution-is-video.html

I don't know if that's an official specification but it definitely looks like the image is not 1080p and 100% upscaled to my eyes (it's why I found the blog in the first place!) with various links related to forums, dvxuser included:thumbup:
 
t2i better for web format, alaising actually gives it a "HD look" from the oddly scaled resolution. But like you said playing it in native resolution it's no match against GH13

Hacked GH1 is imo for the big screen (ie making movies). You mentioned weddings... well t2i owns the s**t out if any GH1 in low light, some VERY nasty video-ish banding going on... Besides, GH1 doesn't do actual 24p (not that you'll use it on weddings but) i just learned this, lol... always thought that was one of the epic things about it when it came out last year and it can indeed be a downer doing pulldown on everything (well u should get rid of avchd anyway)... I'll live with the interlacing articats for now, but no it's not the perfect camera... honestly the avarage person is prolly better of with a t2i/7D rather than a GH1, also finding the right glass can get expensive (yeah yeah "everything" fits it but x2 crop & wide angle options is limited)

Myself though i love telephoto so x2 is welcome... :)

Scewing can also be better controlled with shutter speeds in t2i, i find little improvement going under eq.180 degress in GH1. Moire/alaising you have to discover for yourself, you said you barely notice a difference between 720/1080, well... maybe u won't notice alaising to a big extent either..... i've found t2i useless in basicly any urban environment... sold it and hoping that the GH2 will have similar lowlight capabilities... tbh a lot of things i never liked with the t2i... pressing a button for chaning aparture, wtf? and a fixed, glare-ish screen... no thanks :beer:

BUT again it comes down to what you're doing, as long as it works for you... i wouldn't call it "fake" resolution from the canons, HDV is "fake" aswell but looks wonderful when treated right.
 
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Anyone in the UK wanting a GH1, but have a 550D then talk to me. I have a (hackable) GH1 but need another Canon body instead.
 
Exact said:
Anyone in the UK wanting a GH1, but have a 550D then talk to me. I have a (hackable) GH1 but need another Canon body instead.
Click to expand...

At first, I'm really sorry for my english, I'm in Italy, so...
I totaly agree with Sandro. TOTALLY. His post seems to be wrote from myself...
I have a 550D, but after my first shoots I'm very disappointed for sharpness of the camera. I opened a post in a italian videomakers forum, in order to understand if I'm wrong or the resolution seems to be a rescaled 720. Obviusly, many people defending the Canon, but the aliasing, moirè and sharpness are unacceptable for me. I work every day with HD footage from 35mm, red etc, and the GH1 image seems to be a "little RED" more than the Canon.
As Sandro, I'm are moderately satisfied with the results of shooting at night with the 550, but I heard that using adapters and fast lens you can get excellent results with the GH1.
So, I'm interested to your offer. I'm sorry because I'm in Italy, but I'm sure that, if we want, we can manage this deal.
William
 
Seems like people here never shot film. Film is not sharp and has a soft natural look to it, hence the reason I love the image these Canons produce. Panasonic delivers a sharper image which is similar to video which I hate.


You people need to watch some movies sometimes and understand "sharpness" isn't always better.
 
life4eva said:
Seems like people here never shot film. Film is not sharp and has a soft natural look to it, hence the reason I love the image these Canons produce. Panasonic delivers a sharper image which is similar to video which I hate.


You people need to watch some movies sometimes and understand "sharpness" isn't always better.
Click to expand...
I'm working every day with movie, shooted on 35 mm film or with RED cameras, because my first job is in bluray authoring. I never seen movie with so poor detail as the Canon, in HD. Also old '60 movies are better (I authored the bluray for "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly", the best bluray edition in the world for many people...).
Anyway, I'm able to soft the image with a filter in post, if I need. The opposite is NOT possible.
Ther is a lot of people that shoot with a (sharper) RED in hollywood, are they all crazy?
 
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