FS7: Decision Time! FS5 to FS7?

M

mapkos13

Member
Hey everyone- just found the forum and this is the first of I'm sure many posts to come!

The first one though is going to be a question for some feedback.

Currently I do commercial/advertising studio photography and shoot with a Nikon D810.
Among other cameras I have a bunch of lenses but wanted to get your thoughts on a couple of items.

1) I currently have the FS5 but after some additional research decided that for the extra money, I should either go
up to the FS7 or even consider the C300 or C500 with the discounts.

2) Assuming I stay with my original choice of the FS7, are there any lenses below that you have experience with that you
might share? I haven't read anything on a Metabones for the Nikon but the FS7 promo is giving away a Canon EF.
So now I'm stuck with the decision of buying Canon glass, no glass, or investing in maybe one higher end (not too high end)
glass as a "jack of all trades" of sorts.

My goal is to be able to shoot the following, cinema (shorts to start), corporate, maybe a wedding or two even.
I love the look of the Canon out of box but perhaps as I get better at grading I can achieve something similar anyway.

Last question while I have you guys/gals-

I got a Odyssey 7Q+ for a steal. I know I will need the RAW upgrade but will I also need the XDCA attachment to shoot raw to storage or
am I all set with the O7Q+ upgrade alone?

MUCH, MUCH, THANKS !!!!!

My current lenses across the board are as follows:

Nikon
35mm/1.8
85mm/1.8
105mm/2.8 Macro
12-24mm/2.8 VR
24-70mm/2.8 VR
30-300mm/4.5-5.6

Sony
18-105/4 Servo

Leica
35mm/2.0 Summicron-M ASPH

Fuji
35mm/1.4
27mm/2.8 XF

Rokinon Cine DS
24mm
35mm
50mm
85mm
 
Absolutely yes the FS7 is a worthy upgrade to the FS5. It's an exponentially better camera.

I had the extension unit and 7Q with raw bundle and frankly FS7 raw just isn't worth the hassle. You'd get better results recording from the hdmi port to the 7Q straight to pro res.

As for lenses you seem to have your bases covered.

I shot a short film doing the festival circuit on Leica Rs and they are fabulous, if expensive for a set in decent condition.

The Rockinons are fine for what they are and I've owned them all and shot a documentary solely on the 35mm (albeit on a Red Scarlet), but they're not going to set the world alight. They do a job.

Old Nikons can be great. No idea abut electronic ones.

Not a fan of that Sony Lens but lots of people on here swear by it.

All the best.
 
I'll offer a different opinion from Ben...

I've got the FS5 with the Odyssey 7Q+ and the RAW bundle activation. (On the FS5 you DO NOT need the XDCA attachment. The FS5 RAW is fed through the SDI port to the Odyssey directly.) I've also shot with the FS7 on multiple occasions, and it's a great camera. But shooting RAW on the FS5 puts the FS5 in a different class from the stock FS7. We just shot a TV spot for a cable company here in Texas on the FS5 RAW, and the editor/colorist says he thinks the footage is better than all of our previous work from a color range and "gradeability" standpoint. And we've shot previous spots on the RED Epic Dragon and the Arri Alexa.

Even if you don't record RAW on the Odyssey, but record ProRes from the FS5 RAW output, with your setup I'd say the FS5 is not going to be a limitation to your shooting. If there's a legitimate NEED to upgrade to the FS7 for some other reason, like the ability to more consistently rent it out, then I'd consider it. But if we're talking about which camera system delivers the better image, I'd say the FS5 RAW beats the stock FS7 any day of the week.

I'd also say this...

It's tempting to want to focus on upgrading this or that camera for various reasons, and believe me, I've done my share of upgrading, downgrading, and side-grading. But none of it really made my work that much better. What I should have (and eventually did) focus on was everything else: lighting, camera support, lenses. Cameras will come and go, but those things will be part of your kit for much, much longer. And in the case of lenses, they'll affect the image way more than the camera you attach them to.

Just my two bits.
 
Stephen Mick said:
I'd say the FS5 RAW beats the stock FS7 any day of the week
Click to expand...

I'd very very much love to see an example of this, because that is not my experience of the FS5 whatsoever and I'd be pretty staggered if - all other things like knowing your way around the camera being equal - this was the case.

Not starting an argument - just genuinely intrigued. I've found the FS5 to be terrible in comparison and I bought an A7Sii instead as a b-cam.
 
Ben Scott said:
I'd very very much love to see an example of this, because that is not my experience of the FS5 whatsoever and I'd be pretty staggered if - all other things like knowing your way around the camera being equal - this was the case.

Not starting an argument - just genuinely intrigued. I've found the FS5 to be terrible in comparison and I bought an A7Sii instead as a b-cam.
Click to expand...

From my experience, there's really no comparison between the FS5 RAW and the stock FS7 codec. And really, there shouldn't be. RAW is...well, RAW. Now, if you're comparing the stock FS5 to the stock FS7, I'd absolutely agree with you in saying that the FS7 has the edge. I went with the FS5 for a number of other reasons (size, ergonomics, price), but with RAW enabled, it's a different camera.

I haven't shot RAW on the FS7, so I can't comment on that. But if the OP already owns an FS5 AND an Odyssey 7Q+, I'd say his money would be better spent on the RAW upgrade than by swapping out cameras. But again, that's just this one man's humble opinion.

There are a number of other reasons why someone might want to pick the FS7 over the FS5, but with the addition of RAW to the FS5, image quality isn't one of them.
 
Raw isn't necessarily raw. There no universal standard for what raw is, and it is still being interpreted before it hits the recorder. Does the FS5 raw still not have iso or white balance as metadata adjustments like FS7 raw? Compared to the likes of Redcode and ArriRaw it's not really the same thing.

I assume the FS5 is like FS700 raw as opposed to FS7 raw which means it should be good for downsampling if you shoot at 1080p.


But if you shoot the FS7 (for want of a better word) 'properly' for best image quality - as in bypass all the custom silliness and shoot CINE EI and rate the camera as EI1250 instead of EI2000, there's nothing that comes close to it in that price range and you'd be looking at a Scarlet Weapon for $10,000 more before you have something which in the right hands is demonstrably better.

Which is why I'm intrigued by what you're saying the FS5 raw is capable of.

EDIT: Forget raw on the FS7. Due to the linear data distribution in the shadows it essentially turns a 14 stop camera into a 7 stop one if you need clean and pristine.

EDIT EDIT: Best tell the OP to buy some hard drives too for all those CDNGS :)
 
Doug Jensen said:
But that's not all it. It also records several flavors of ProRes via the RAW output and I was wondering if you were recording DNG or one of those. Sounds like you are NOT doing ProRes.
Click to expand...

I've recorded both RAW and ProRes, including high-speed in both flavors.
 
I am struggling to see any need for you to move beyond the Fs5.

"My goal is to be able to shoot the following, cinema (shorts to start), corporate, maybe a wedding or two even."

All of which can be done on the Fs5 and done nicely. Particularly when using your Odyssey Q7.

The Fs7 may well be an exponentially better camera than the Fs5, but is obtaining an Fs7 going to result in your being able to exponentially increase your rate or exponentially increase the caliber of jobs / clients you are able to obtain? Will acquisition of an Fs7 bring you any clients you could not have obtained otherwise?

What is the lighting package you own like? Do you own a Dana dolly or slider? Might the funds be better put towards further supplanting your Fs5? I would hate to see you make the move from the Fs5 to the Fs7 and then find yourself failing to see much difference in your work. The Fs7 is a better camera, but it isn't as if you are going to see the difference in the product that you would see were you moving up to an Alexa. Lighting and camera accessories might make more of an impact on your current work than would a move to the Fs7.
 
The FS7 is a quite different camera compered to the FS5. If you would not own the FS5 I would recommend the FS7. But since you own by now the FS5 the raw upgrade in combination with an external recorder will be a great advantage to the internal FS5 8bit UHD codec (either the 7Q+ to 4K/DCI 50p/60p CDNG or even the Shogun Inferno to 4K/DCI 30p CDNG/ProRes 50p/60p).

if you go the raw path be aware that the CDNG are huge files. A lot of peoply may prefere ProRes instead of that.
 
JPNola said:
I am struggling to see any need for you to move beyond the Fs5.

"My goal is to be able to shoot the following, cinema (shorts to start), corporate, maybe a wedding or two even."

All of which can be done on the Fs5 and done nicely. Particularly when using your Odyssey Q7.

The Fs7 may well be an exponentially better camera than the Fs5, but is obtaining an Fs7 going to result in your being able to exponentially increase your rate or exponentially increase the caliber of jobs / clients you are able to obtain? Will acquisition of an Fs7 bring you any clients you could not have obtained otherwise?

What is the lighting package you own like? Do you own a Dana dolly or slider? Might the funds be better put towards further supplanting your Fs5? I would hate to see you make the move from the Fs5 to the Fs7 and then find yourself failing to see much difference in your work. The Fs7 is a better camera, but it isn't as if you are going to see the difference in the product that you would see were you moving up to an Alexa. Lighting and camera accessories might make more of an impact on your current work than would a move to the Fs7.
Click to expand...

All of that is absolutely true. OP, listen to this crazy cat.
 
Wow, I knew I could count on this forum for some solid answers and good discussions.

As with everything else, sometimes it's just what flavor you prefer which seems to be the case here.

In response to some questions.

"Will acquisition of an Fs7 bring you any clients you could not have obtained otherwise? "

That's tough to say so I cannot answer which may be an answer in itself. Someone discussed rental which I hadn't thought of. I guess my comment would be
will this allow me to expand my knowledge without hitting a limit in some respect. The 7 I feel gives me more options and more latitude as almost a way to "future proof" my own growth.
I can see where this camera may allow me to participate in a peer's project vs. maybe the 5 but that is purely speculation.

I've always tried to buy what I could afford and what I thought would get me further down the road.


"What is the lighting package you own like? Do you own a Dana dolly or slider?"

I currently have a package of Arri lighting from 150's to 1000's along with Lowell's, Chimera softboxes, diffusion panels, grids, etc. I have a 4' slider along with a homemade 10' dolly that I built.
I like where you are going with the question and it is valid to invest in the items that make your production better vs. just trying to be better from the camera.

As for the lenses, yes, that is an investment all on its own!
 
Exactly what Ben and Osslund said. It's really hard to justify purchase of any other camera once you own FS7. Beauty of this camera is that you don't have to deal with any external gimmickery and 3 batteries will get through the whole day of shooting. And it also became almost an industry standard. I sometimes think of downgrading to FS5 to have a smaller body and VND but I know I will be missing a lot of FS7 features that are in this one, great package. My dream FS8 will be FS7 in FS5 body with VND plus added AF similar to the one from c300ii. This camera is really as close to perfect camera as ever possible.

On the other hand If you do a lot of studio and commercial work maybe you should think of Scarlet-W? That will give you maximum image quality and maybe bring you new customers, attracted by the "Red" name.
 
alohype said:
Exactly what Ben and Osslund said. It's really hard to justify purchase of any other camera once you own FS7. Beauty of this camera is that you don't have to deal with any external gimmickery and 3 batteries will get through the whole day of shooting. And it also became almost an industry standard. I sometimes think of downgrading to FS5 to have a smaller body and VND but I know I will be missing a lot of FS7 features that are in this one, great package. My dream FS8 will be FS7 in FS5 body with VND plus added AF similar to the one from c300ii. This camera is really as close to perfect camera as ever possible.

On the other hand If you do a lot of studio and commercial work maybe you should think of Scarlet-W? That will give you maximum image quality and maybe bring you new customers, attracted by the "Red" name.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

I was thinking about painting Red on the side of this and calling it a day! :)
 
A bit of advice I give to anyone that asks re gear, and borne from bitter experience, is Never buy gear for the client base you want. Always buy gear for the client base you HAVE.

It sounds like in your arena you'll not see any return on your investment over what you already have so if you want to push production values and do better and better paid work invest in the real stuff... Lights and grip gear. A decent tripod will make everything you shoot except statics look a lot better.
 
I agree with Ben. Invest in stuff you need right now. Whenever you feel that what you have does not work when your out there actually working, you can start identifying what specific things you need and what things could help you with that.

This is not meaning "don't plan for your shoots or what you are doing" but rather that when your shooting there are always things bugging you, nothing is never perfect. Some things are minor like maybe your waveform could be bigger/better while other things really **** things up like you could not pull focus because your lens was running windows xp. For me its mostly lighting and camera motion that frustrates me and Im trying to come up with ways of getting those things in smaller packages so I can carry it around.
 
Okay so after taking all the feedback and everyone's personal experiences on the subject I have to say it's all great stuff!

so, I went ahead and did the upgrade as I felt this is a real starting point for me. A point I forgot to mention was the FS-5 was a great gift from my wife and she ultimately wants me to be thrilled with the camera I will be using for the foreseeable future which is what I feel I will have with the 7.

there will be days where I wish I had the smaller form factor for sure but I believe that the 7 will provide more room to grow in my own twisted way of thinking. Yes the 5 with the raw upgrade is fantastic, but putting money aside for a second, is it better than 7 with the raw output capability to the Odyssey? Im not sure but I would say maybe not given the conversation.

The storage is massive for sure when playing with those big files! All of the comments I really appreciate and will use going forward as if the 7 was my first base camera. I'm an upgrader by nature so it's a gap I have to fix as there will always be another better thing just down the road.

Given all of this, if anyone has an advice now that I've gone with the 7 straight up, feel free to share. Once again, thanks for all of your advice. My first thread on this was much better and more professional than I had hoped!
 
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