GH2 Dear Panasonic: Please make a GH "box" m43 camera head!

Peter J. DeCrescenzo

Peter J. DeCrescenzo

Veteran
As soon as it's available, Panasonic should stuff the new "GH3" sensor in a ~4" metal cube with a m43 lens mount, and two locking* HDMI output connectors (w. clean, bog-standard 10-bit 4:2:2 1080p video out @ 24p, 25p, 30p & maybe 60p), about a half-dozen user-assignable buttons, a nominal 12VDC power input, a built-in crappy mono mic for ref audio, a genlock input or some way to synch 2 cams for 3D, tap a bunch of 1/4" & 3/8" screw holes on every surface, and slap a <$2K US price sticker on it. Period.

No EVF, no LCD, no grip, no battery, no built-in recording capability. Just a small camera head. Not a camcorder or "DSLR". A camera head. A box camera. Period.

Encourage customers to connect it to Panasonic and 3rd party external HDMI recorders, EVFs, monitors, grips, batteries, rigs, etc., etc. Mics & audio sources (and headphones) connect to the external recorder. The cam's UI would be displayed on one of the HDMI outputs.

If Panasonic doesn't create such a camera head, someone else will. Such as: BmD, AJA, Atomos, SoundDevices, GoPro, Matrox, Nikon, etc. and who knows maybe even Sony, JVC, or a number of other high-tech companies, etc. Now that the BmD cinema cam is out, it's a whole new world, with new competitors.

Whoever creates such a cam will sell a boat load of them. Maybe not a 5DM3 or D800 boat load, but a lot. And not just to "cinema" shooters. Such a cam will find a wide variety of uses, just as other box cams do. But most box cams don't have a m43 lens mount or shoot 24p/25p or have HDMI out. Nowadays it's relatively inexpensive to do it.

I'd like Panasonic to do it because then maybe the cam's video would have some of that Panasonic mojo in it! ;-)

Cheers.

*Locking HDMI connectors & cables exist, and I'm sure Panasonic's engineers can design them, too.

EDIT: Personally, I'd use a "GH m43 box camera" with the new Atomos Ninja 2 external HDMI recorder. I already have everything else to make it work, and I suspect there are thousands of potential customers who do, too. Although the cam I'm proposing doesn't have the 12-bit RAW capability of the BmDCC, it should costs less and has a super-adaptable m43 mount, clean 10-bit 4:2:2 1080p HDMI out, and be easier to rig than the BmDCC. It's also OK with me if they make a family of such products; e.g.: they can always add a 4K-ish model whenever.
 
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Who'd buy that, really? It's a very niche product. I doubt very much that they'd sell very many, and their a mass-market company, so I doubt they'd even want to. ;) Dreams are fine though.
 
I think you're right Peter.

The whole "camera" meme is rapidly vanishing as far as digital film-making goes. RED certainly put the fast-forward on that.
Pro NEWS and ENG style video cameras will retain their place - as well they should, but how many shooters have a rig of some kind built around their GH2's and D5Mx's already? A ton.

I am only using the GH2 for music videos right now - no audio requirements AT ALL. If I did have audio requirements I would need custom audio rigging.
Then there's rails for follow focus, a rig for a bigger LDC screen, a battery grip or other extra power supply....it's endless.

Have you seen the "Show us your rig" threads?
I can't even find the camera underneath some of those things!

What I can't imagine is anyone using a GH2 style camera for any kind of serious film making WITHOUT having at least some of this stuff added on... and by serious I do not mean "big-budget" I just mean serious intent.

So yeah...it would sell. It indeed has its place.
 
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I've wanted a camera like this ever since the Andromeda DVX100. The closest we've got is the upcoming blackmagic cam, and at a higher cost, Scarlet-X
 
I was bored, so I did this. I know it's crazy. Body would work independent of the Screen if you had no monies. Together they would be unstoppable
my lil camera.jpg
 
The guy doing the KineRaw S8 tests said that a camera box sytem like you said....the hardware to do 1080p uncompressed to SSD, would cost $300. He said he even talked to the head of a big camera sensor maker but they won't do it unless they get a huge up front payment to prototype it.

Absolutely the hardware alone to do proper 2k uncompressed output should be no more than $1k. BMD proves it...take away the touch screen, do all manual lens mount, get rid of the software bundle...that's a $1000 cam.
 
Now that the BmD Cinema Camera is out of the bag, it's not only more likely that Panasonic will create something like what I'm proposing, but it's also much more possible that it would sell.

The key conceptual leap for Panasonic will be to not copy what BmD has done, but to put a different spin on it: Make a super-simple & inexpensive m43 10-bit 4:2:2 1080p camera head without built-in recording capability, without an EVF or monitor, and without audio inputs -- in other words, not a camcorder -- but instead a box camera designed for use with one of the many external HDMI recorders (and computer HDMI capture devices) now readily available.

Although I don't think Panasonic will sell anywhere near as many of these as the "GH3", I bet they'd sell a lot more of them than the AF100. Way more. And to a wide variety of users.
 
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AdventMediaProductions said:
I wouldn't buy it just because of the emphasis on HDMI. I highly prefer SDI.
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Understood. I prefer HD-SDI, too.

It's OK with me if Panasonic adds 1 or 2 HD-SDI outputs in addition to the 2 HDMI outputs.

It shouldn't impact the cost much, if at all. For example, the BmD Hyperdeck Shuttle features both HDMI & HD-SDI I/O in a $345 device.

Cheers.
 
Peter J. DeCrescenzo said:
Make a super-simple & inexpensive m43 10-bit 4:2:2 1080p camera head without built-in recording capability, without an EVF or monitor, and without audio inputs -- in other words, not a camcorder -- but instead a box camera designed for use with one of the many external HDMI recorders (and computer HDMI capture devices) now readily available.
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That would be fantastic. Just a m4/3 mount, hi-res 10-bit sensor, HDMI & HD-SDI outputs, and power input. Nothing more. Everything else is already available to purchase from third parties. Build it as big or small as you like. I dig it.
 
Peter J. DeCrescenzo said:
ANo EVF, no LCD, no grip, no battery, no built-in recording capability. Just a small camera head. Not a camcorder or "DSLR". A camera head. A box camera. Period.
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Well, not to seem disrespectful, but I doubt that you and I were in business school together.
Even with a plethora of external peripherals around, a vidcam manufacturer would be committing suicide to count on them.
I LOVE the 4" box but it really needs to be Sony FS-100's little brother the Sony FS-'Cube' (model name imaginary)
flip out screen (just in case), an electronic EVF like the new Olympus E-5D, HDMI OUT, Thunderbolt OUT, Dual SD card slots, monitor OUT, Mic IN (for reference and ENG). 2 1/4-20 bushings on top, and one on the bottom. NO MIC,
The power in should be standard and some kind of a battery (just in case)
"a super-adaptable m43 mount" - clean 10-bit 4:2:2 1080p HDMI OUT
for monitoring and Thunderbolt OUT
for storage .
 
Zephyrnoid said:
Well, not to seem disrespectful, but I doubt that you and I were in business school together.
Even with a plethora of external peripherals around, a vidcam manufacturer would be committing suicide to count on them.
I LOVE the 4" box but it really needs to be Sony FS-100's little brother the Sony FS-'Cube' (model name imaginary)
flip out screen (just in case), an electronic EVF like the new Olympus E-5D, HDMI OUT, Thunderbolt OUT, Dual SD card slots, monitor OUT, Mic IN (for reference and ENG). 2 1/4-20 bushings on top, and one on the bottom. NO MIC,
The power in should be standard and some kind of a battery (just in case)
"a super-adaptable m43 mount" - clean 10-bit 4:2:2 1080p HDMI OUT
for monitoring and Thunderbolt OUT
for storage .
Click to expand...

Agreed, but Panasonic could easily provide all these peripherals themselves.
Seeing how no film maker can make much with ONLY the camera as it is - without adding ANY peripherals from this list - I think it's almost the inevitable future. Aside from total consumer only units - which WILL vanish entirely in the next few years. Have you seen the new Nokia phone? 41 MegaPixel - yes, 41MP and full HD video with a Zeiss lens. The consumer video camera market has maybe 24 months left in it.
 
@Zephynoid

I think the cam you describe would be a fantastic camera for Sony to sell (if based on FS100-type tech), and I'm cool with Panasonic making something similar to what you describe, too.

What I'm proposing is a camera design in addition to what you describe, and in addition to the traditional camcorder "model", HD-DSLR, etc.

I think Blackmagic Design's Cinema Camera is in the process of proving that "outside the box" cams can sell & (probably) be profitable, too, if the design, feature set, price & overall execution (including support) is compelling.

I think there's plenty of room in the market for the cam you describe, and the one I describe, plus most of the traditional pro, prosumer & consumer camcorders.

As you know, a camera doesn't need to be a mass-market blockbuster to be profitable, especially if it's mostly based on existing tech.

Cheers.

P.S.: And I think DPStewart is correct: Consumer camcorders are rapidly being replaced by smartphones, as are consumer point&shoot digital still cams. There'll always be a place in the market for more specialized prosumer & pro video cams that meet their users' needs, even though at the same time these pros increasingly use smartphones for both stills & video in their work.
 
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Not to say that I don't love the concept, but I doubt a consumer-driven brand like Panasonic (or at least an R&D department in this price bracket) would invest in an idea like this. It's far too niche of a product. The average user can take a GH2 out of the box and go shoot something with it, while the pro user can attach tons of gadgets to make it operate like a pro camera. Everyone's happy, or at least happy enough to purchase the product. Plus, by the time you add the costs of a decent follow focus/shoulder rig/monitor, the costs for the LCD, SD slot, grip design, etc are likely VERY minimal.

I could see the pro line developing a product like this, but why would they price it at that level when other companies are charging more and Panasonic has their own line of cameras to protect? Developments like this, especially at this pricepoint, will probably come from smaller/lesser-known companies like Black Magic.
 
mondayc said:
I could see the pro line developing a product like this, but why would they price it at that level when other companies are charging more and Panasonic has their own line of cameras to protect? Developments like this, especially at this pricepoint, will probably come from smaller/lesser-known companies like Black Magic.
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Actually Panasonic Pro has a very similar camera head but with a 1/4" sensor and the first time I saw it I commented that I'd buy one in a second once they made a 4/3" version.

http://panasonic.com/business/provideo/AG-HCK10G.asp
 
Martti Ekstrand said:
Actually Panasonic Pro has a very similar camera head but with a 1/4" sensor and the first time I saw it I commented that I'd buy one in a second once they made a 4/3" version.

http://panasonic.com/business/provideo/AG-HCK10G.asp
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Yep - same thing. Note also that their 1/4" cam is useless for 3D since it can't be genlocked and can't have lenses synched.

Still waiting for a good mirror rig Panasonic cam but reading between the lines from the total lack of response, I'm guessing they don't care at all. They want to sell you Avatar with their Blu-Ray players and TVs... but not actually give you the tools needed to make good 3D. Ah well, their (billion dollar) loss in selling expensive TVs and glasses due to lack of decent content!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
This sounds like too much of a niche item for Panasonic to try to deliver. For features and shorts, most people will have plenty of time to plan and compose shots as well as deal with a difficult post process. However, for web series, micro shorts, and client work, I think most people want more of an economy to their workflow. I think I'd much rather see Panasonic make a 2000 dollar Lumix camcorder and play more to the consumer market.
 
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