1DC: Dead Pixels, random errors, terrible support... anyone else?

[Geko]

Are the pixels fixed at the same position? If so they'd be very easily fixed in post with a few clicks in Resolve or Vegas and probably all NLEs, similar to black hole in BM cameras but even easier,

Just trying to help you shoot with the camera if you're in the middle of a business, not trying to justify the problem (it's not acceptable)

With static shots that's easy, but not really with pan shots where the bad pixel transitions from bright to dark areas (which is 85% of the time). The automatic way of masking bad pixels is to substitute them with neighboring pixels. During such transitions however this becomes visible, although not as bad as a shining bright dot. So far we haven't found a way to do this reliably and well with automations. And doing it frame by frame is just impossible.

BTW, here is what a 1DC hot white pixel looks like at 300% magnification: As you can see, this is actually more like 9 pixels. This thing becomes a bright white dot when viewed at normal 4K resolution and an enormous white dot at HD. Have a couple of these in your frame and your shot is ruined.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

Yes that's certainly not a ''Pixel''. That's a defective ''spot'' in the sensor. throughout the thread I (and probably many others) thought we were talking about normal dead/stuck pixels that appear on DSLRs that's pretty easy to fix.

 

[AndreeOnline]

I'd say one stuck green photo site—and the following debayered result as a consequence.

 

[mavs]

With static shots that's easy, but not really with pan shots where the bad pixel transitions from bright to dark areas (which is 85% of the time). The automatic way of masking bad pixels is to substitute them with neighboring pixels. During such transitions however this becomes visible, although not as bad as a shining bright dot. So far we haven't found a way to do this reliably and well with automations. And doing it frame by frame is just impossible.

BTW, here is what a 1DC hot white pixel looks like at 300% magnification:

My 1DC exhibits the same "spots" when viewed at 300%. Not that this helps, but I did some more experimentation and noticed changing shutter speeds also seems to change the visibility of the "spots". Sometimes a higher shutter speed and sometimes a lower speed (keeping exposure the same by adjusting aperture) will make the spots disappear. Also, at least in my case, they disappear at 6400 iso with high iso noise reduction on.

As for masking out the pixels in regards to "panshots" can't you duplicate the track and offset a couple pixels, then mask the duplicate track except over the hot "spots" of the original track? I would think that would be a reasonable fix for almost all subject matter.

Andree, does your camera exhibit these symptoms? Still LOVE the image this cam makes.

 

[AndreeOnline]

Andree, does your camera exhibit these symptoms? Still LOVE the image this cam makes.

No, I don't have any of this in my footage. I could likely trigger it by leaving Liveview on and shoot for long periods, but that is not how I shoot.

I don't do event or play type things. Mostly corporate/image clips that perhaps are shorter by nature. I also always shut LV off when I'm not using it—I see no reason not to.

Even having read this thread, I won't "plan around" this potential issue, but rather just keep shooting normally as I have done up to this point. So far never had a "stuck pixel".

 

[mavs]

I purchased the 1DC almost as soon as it came out and only recently did it develop the problem, but like you, I shoot shorter takes.

 

[cookinghusband]

So they do have a way to remap the sensor that fixed your problem for months.

I think it should have had this function in the menu like the other C cameras (and all the other 4k highend ones), when you get a dead pixel you remap/black balance and it's gone for a long time.

Could this be added via firmware or is it a hardware unit? It just needs to find the spot and use the image processor to hide it as all the other cameras do. Is this a technically feasible feature request?

Just wondering can we use the dust data function to do the remapping ?

 

[cookinghusband]

So they do have a way to remap the sensor that fixed your problem for months.

I think it should have had this function in the menu like the other C cameras (and all the other 4k highend ones), when you get a dead pixel you remap/black balance and it's gone for a long time.

Could this be added via firmware or is it a hardware unit? It just needs to find the spot and use the image processor to hide it as all the other cameras do. Is this a technically feasible feature request?

I just read through the whole thread and have one suggestion to offer: next time you go abroad (even more so to a foreign country), do get an insurance for film productions. I have been using one of these special insurance companies from day 1 of my work. These specialized insurance companies even offer coverage for bad weather and other mishaps like main actor walks off the set never to return and such! Of course you can get a limited and specialized package at lower cost.
The other suggestion is to not shoot a documentary in a format that is still in its early stage (4k) and to remember that content rules, not the number of pixels.
Anyway the whole thread was interesting to read. I am sure that once 4k monitors are more common, more people will see the pixel-issue.

Just for information, 4KTV is available for less than USD600 these day even top end 65" 4KTV are in the USD2000-3000 range.

Many new recording device from smart phones to DC come with 4K video recoding since mid 2014.

The reason why it was less common before is because the SD card the can be fast enough to record 4K format are too expensive. Since price drop of SD cards during the last year, the market change already. it is like in 2008 now when we all changed to 1080FHD and every one say noone is using HDTV

I am already looking into 4.6K, 5K, 6k. As soon as they reach my budget range I will move up. ( I think I may be getting the URSA mini this year) I do documentary and events most of the time.

 

[Geko]

Just wondering can we use the dust data function to do the remapping ?

i don't think this will work. This is a still function, and is not really for video, as far as I understand. I may be wrong though.

BTW, there have been a lot of developments with Canon during the past 10 days. You can all expect an extremely interesting read in the following days, if we do not reach an agreement with them by the end of the day. All I can say for now is that I have never dealt with so cynical and arrogant organization before (I am sure there are others, though). I really feel spoiled from all this, on a lot of levels.

 

[Curtis Mack]

Yes, 4K is available, but how many will run out and replace their working TV's with the latest and greatest? Everyone had to upgrade to HD, because the government ending SD broadcasting. Even now, much of the cable fare is still in SD. But no one is forcing the public to buy 4K TV's. And they won't until their old HD sets wear out. Will the distribution companies remaster everything? Naturally, any new camera any of us buy will have 4K capability, but lack of it is not a problem now. I do not work professionally, but I doubt that clients will pay extra for 4K for several more years.

 

[Humanoid Typhoon]

I picked up a 4k 55" LG from best buy for $850. Ready for the 4k content .....whenever that ends up being. lol

 

[Geko]

All this in fact has nothing to do with whether people have 4K at home or not. 4K is used for production, not for the final render. Even many feature films which are shot in 5K are later downsampled to normal HD for the big screen. 4K has huge advantages while shooting, it has not gotten to the homes of most people yet. And when it gets there, the standard for production will probably be 8K.

 

[David W. Jones]

Yes, 4K is available, but how many will run out and replace their working TV's with the latest and greatest? Everyone had to upgrade to HD, because the government ending SD broadcasting..

The government is not ending Standard Definition broadcasting!

It has ended analog broadcasting, and now all broadcast TV stations have a digital transmission path.

Naturally, any new camera any of us buy will have 4K capability, but lack of it is not a problem now. I do not work professionally, but I doubt that clients will pay extra for 4K for several more years.

Any camera I purchase from now forward will be 4K or better.

Since you do not work professionally, how do you know what clients will or will not pay for?

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

Off topic. How is the 1DC situation going? anybody else having defective units they can't shoot more than 5 minutes with?

 

[Geko]

Off topic. How is the 1DC situation going? anybody else having defective units they can't shoot more than 5 minutes with?

13 defective units that we know of, so far + people from Canon admitted that the whole line is in fact defective + there is much more to the story and I probably will share it in a couple of days. Basically, it is the worst possible scenario.

BTW, the Internet version of our documentary has been released today: IMDB Link ; whole video link: The Unexplored The theatrical version will premiere at Sundance.

Regretfully not all of it was shot with the 1DC, but we did what we could. It was the director's vision that the content was more important than the video quality, and I fully agree. I think the result is amazing in it's own way. Hope you like it.

 

[Geko]

OK, here is the post no one has been waiting for, but probably a few of you might find interesting.

As of today we are done trying to reason with Canon, and we are totally fed up with their BS, here is what happened during the past couple of weeks. I will be very brief, as there is no point to recount everything. But the bottom line is that Canon tried to make us shut up by bribing us with "secret" deals.

At first we were corresponding with them primarily by e-mail, at the advice of our lawyers. Then suddenly they started calling on the phone, in order to propose deals off the record. It was all done in the most foolish and childish way possible - a Canon employee from the Pro Customer division calls us on the phone and proposes a deal, saying that Canon does not want this deal, but that he would be able to talk them into accepting it. It was like that every time! At first the main focus was that they wanted desperately to take from us the loaner 1DC, so that we do not have it as proof of the defective line. The first deal was - we give them back the 1DC, they give us a C300mkII in return, but on the condition that we sign an NDA agreement about the deal, and stop spreading any information about the defective EOS 1DC line. They thought that this was very tempting. We refused, as this was a total disgrace.

Then we proposed them the following - as we had purchased a still/video package, and also a lot of additional gear for it (we also film underwater, so it is housings and a ton of other insanely expensive stuff, all specific to the 1DC platform), they let us keep the 1DC for the still part, or give us a 1DX, and give us a C300mkII when it becomes available so that we have the 4K video part of the deal. In this scenario we had to buy new housings and a lot of other things totaling to about 30K$, but we said, well, we can swallow that. This was fair.

Of course, no. They refused, then silence.

Here comes Friday the 12-th. We announce in the morning that our new documentary is ready and will be released online the following day. Mind you this is Friday, they close for the weekend. Canon knows that at the end of the credits there is a link to this whole story, and they have seen the documentary and know it is very special, so this puts them in frantic mode. We received a call from them in the morning, again from the "good cop" employee, who with highly trembling voice (btw. all these calls have been recorded) tells us that we should stay put and expect a call from headquarters later in the afternoon. Then, a couple of hours later, a new phonecall comes, this time from the boss. The same ridiculous monologue - "The people from NY are not really inclined to do this, but I can try to make them do the following - we give you the C300mkII, and also allow you to buy from us a used 1DX for the price of one thousand dollars, as long as you return the 1DC". Our director told them that they were crazy to offer something like this, and they either accept our proposal as it was or decline it.

At this point all of us were really upset. This was beyond arrogant, and we all felt treated like fools. Then we decided that we will refuse any deal with Canon, no matter what came next, it was just a moral compromise no one of us wanted to take. We didn't call them, did nothing, just waited for their next dumb move. We released our movie, which went viral, as was anticipated. It is still watched at every instant by about 70 people, and this is just the beginning.

As a result of this they lost the battle. This morning an email came. Canon "regrets" that we have refused their proposal. They do not accept ours, we should go to hell. They didn't know that this was actually very good news, as our proposal has already been pulled off.

We feel that our dignity and decency does not cost 15K$ dollars, by a long stretch. In fact we are all quite ashamed that we were almost tempted to make a deal with a corporation which has ZERO regard for it's customers, and which is shamelessly lying to everyone (the 1DC has not been pulled out of sales, nor a recall has been initiated). And which, on top of everything else, is making it's employees debase themselves by secretly calling clients and offering behind-the-scene deals - something which clearly put these people close to a nervous breakdown, judging by the voices which can be herd in these telephone calls. This was as surreal as it gets.

So, the moral of the story - all you 1DC owners out there - press Canon to give you C300mkII in exchange for your defective units ASAP. Sue them, pressure them. They know perfectly well that the whole line of the EOS 1DC cameras are defective. It may be the sensors, it may be the inadequate cooling - it doesn't matter. They know, up to the highest levels in the USA, and also in Japan. There will be a class action lawsuit and we will participate, but all our team will also just use our productions to spread the word about all this. No one deserves to be treated like garbage. We will never, ever use Canon again.

That's all folks. Hope you enjoyed it. We sure didn't. Take care!

 

[marvinhello]

I have 1D C and the issue you experienced. Called US cinemaeos support hotline, they seem to be well prepared for these 1D C specific complaints. The guy on the phone was saying it happens on all DSLRs and we need to "properly expose" without using high ISO, and he'll be glad to help if I send the camera in.

What a drama.

 

[cpreston]

Did he mention what exactly he would do to help if you sent the camera in?

 

[Geko]

I have 1D C and the issue you experienced. Called US cinemaeos support hotline, they seem to be well prepared for these 1D C specific complaints. The guy on the phone was saying it happens on all DSLRs and we need to "properly expose" without using high ISO, and he'll be glad to help if I send the camera in.

What a drama.

can it really get more pathetic than that... :embarasse probably not.

 

[marvinhello]

Did he mention what exactly he would do to help if you sent the camera in?

Basically he said the Canon technicians and engineers would go above and beyond to identify and fix the problem. :huh: