1DC: Dead Pixels, random errors, terrible support... anyone else?

[Jim Martin]

I'm not sure about your use of the word dealbreaker........

 

[cpreston]

My guess is that the main problems with the 1DC can be traced to the fact that the camera was developed by the stills division and then handed off the cinema division. Based on the fact that the cinema division has neither added any decent video firmware upgrades nor kept it in parity with the 1DX, I have come to the conclusion that the cinema division just doesn't care about the camera. It has been effectively disowned by all of the divisions within Canon and EOL'd almost immediately. The "C" line really doesn't show any of the fundamental missteps or disregard that the 1DC has shown.

 

[J Michael]

Does this always affect the same pixels on a particular camera and if so how could that be fixed by black balance or pixel mapping?i thought that was for discrete failed pixels.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

Is it a sensor problem? Hundreds of thousands of professionals photographers are shooting with the full 18 million pixels on the sensor and sometimes at 14 frames per second and not a single pixel of the 18 million appears to be dead or burnt, even when using live view for hours tethered.

Software/processing problem? probably?

 

[maarek]

Is it a sensor problem? Hundreds of thousands of professionals photographers are shooting with the full 18 million pixels on the sensor and sometimes at 14 frames per second and not a single pixel of the 18 million appears to be dead or burnt, even when using live view for hours tethered.

There are loads of dead pixels on full frame cameras. They have software built-in that scans for dead pixels and maps them away. I can see a bunch of dead pixels on my 5d III when I first load a photo on to Lightroom, then Lightroom processes it quickly and all the dead pixels are gone.

 

[Geko]

I'm not sure about your use of the word dealbreaker........

What I mean is that Canon is aiming at entering the professional cinema camera market with the 'C' line. They are doing it through the indie community base, as someone in the corporation recognized the huge potential in this area, but ultimately they want to compete with the big players like RED. This can happen only with affordable, portable and high-quality 4K (and later 5K, etc.) technology which can withstand professional type use. So far all they have proven in this regard is that they could not do it reliably. Canon may think that the 1DC is a small deal, being a hybrid and all, but it is not. What happened with it and the way they "handled" the problem will make some people very apprehensive towards the C300mkII. Many small production teams, like ours, are waiting for a small package 4K unit. It is very hard to trust Canon for 4K after what happened. And I myself will be sure to test the 4K performance of the C300mkII as soon as it gets out. If it has the same problems they will not go unnoticed as happened with the 1DC. All who discuss bad pixels on this thread obviously have not had to deal with this in real footage meant for distribution. It is just not useable, such a camera is just not useable, at all. If the C300mkII fails in this regard, Canon will never be able to properly enter this market segment, despite their good ergonomics, pleasing colors, etc. It will just be the end of the game for them.

Does this always affect the same pixels on a particular camera and if so how could that be fixed by black balance or pixel mapping?i thought that was for discrete failed pixels.

Yes, always the same pixels. Although it is not clear yet if new dead pixels would appear over time. Pixel re-mapping and/or black balance may be able to deal with the problem, unless the overheating is really slowly destroying the CMOS itself. However both of these features are NOT available on the 1DC. This was the easiest fix Canon could have done and this was the first thing we suggested to them 5 months ago. They didn't even comment on it. What's more, their technicians, on three different occasions and in three different service centers didn't even know how to check for failed pixels on the 1DC, let alone remap or do something meaningful.

Is it a sensor problem? Hundreds of thousands of professionals photographers are shooting with the full 18 million pixels on the sensor and sometimes at 14 frames per second and not a single pixel of the 18 million appears to be dead or burnt, even when using live view for hours tethered.

Software/processing problem? probably?

No, this is not a software problem, it is a hardware problem and it does not affect still image performance at all. What is happening during burst shooting is not similar at all to what is happening with the sensor and the whole camera during 4K video recording. You can never heat up the sensor enough with still shooting, no matter what you do.


BTW, Canon announced that they will propose a resolution to the problem by the end of this week - i.e. by tomorrow. Still waiting for the miracle.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

So when you use the camera for a prolonged time and the pixels appear, do they go away or persist for all time when the camera is used again?

 

[Geko]

So when you use the camera for a prolonged time and the pixels appear, do they go away or persist for all time when the camera is used again?

No, they are there only when the sensor is warm - i.e. after the first few minutes of shooting, and stay visible until the sensor cools down again. With a cool sensor they are not visible, so they are not a problem with still images, only with video.

 

[cpreston]

I'm guessing sales figures for the 1DC would show why Canon doesn't feel they need to worry about how problems with the camera will affect their reputation. Everything I've seen indicates that the sales figures are so low that nobody would ever notice complaints about the actual operation of the camera. Frankly, the major damage to Canon's reputation occurred when they released the 1DC with such a high price tag. The majority of their enthusiast DSLR videographer market turned against them.

As for the temperature of the camera, I wouldn't call it just warm. It gets downright hot when recording and LV are enabled for an extended period of time. Like, "I can't hold this camera right now" hot.

 

[Geko]

...

As for the temperature of the camera, I wouldn't call it just warm. It gets downright hot when recording and LV are enabled for an extended period of time. Like, "I can't hold this camera right now" hot.

Definitely true... and you are in the temperate zone. Here in Mexico with ambient temperatures in the 33C range you can fry an egg on it after the first couple of minutes of use. In the shade. It neither displays a warning, nor turns off. It is quite bad for the batteries too, as Li-ion batteries do not like these temperatures at all.

 

[zodiac]

Hi Geko,


I also shoot with the 1dc. Purchased it in Canon HK april 2014 but I'm now based in the UK. So just over a year I've had the unit.

Only recently I've been shooting alot of 4k and is having similar problems to your unit.

I started noticing stuck pixels early this year on 1080, s45, and 4k. I had 2 stuck pixels!!. I had my sensor remapped in CPS UK (I'm a gold member). That fixed the problem, image was clean for a good few months of heavy use.



It happened again unfortunately. 2 weeks ago, only on 4k, one stuck pixel. Which starts as a white speck and as the camera gets warmer and it turns into bright red! This is however not as bad as the first time.



I sent it back to CPS UK for repair 3 days ago. I emailed my CPS rep asking what can I do to prevent this from happening or if my unit is defected..

They said that the 'stuck pixels is a result of the sensor in my camera generating heat and effecting the pixels'. And recommend to shoot at lower isos (a page from the 1DC manual).

I have JUST received my 1DC from Canon UK CPS.

Still same problem. Same stuck pixel & same spot.



I'm emailing my UK CPS rep and Canon HK about this issue. To be honest doubt I will get much helpful response really..

I do the same 'cooking of the sensor' test it does not to take long. 10 minutes is sufficient. 4000 iso seems to be where the stuck pixel start to flare up.

I do this because I need to know how my camera will perform under demanding situations. It is my workhorse camera.

I agree with you as a camera thats part of the C line and advertised as such should have not have this kind of problem. Anyone investing into the camera should expect it to perform reasonably well under its own predefined constraints.

On s35 mode the image is fantastic, lovely 1080 image.



For the record I shoot documentaries, live music performances, events, conferences and weddings. I alternate between 1080 50fps, s53 and 4k. Some gigs I shoot for extended periods e.g 3-4 hrs but segmented.

If it helps I use boris continuum image restore to mask out my stuck pixel...




I have placed an order for the Sony FS7.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

Very strange. So the pixel is fine and works but dies when heated then works again when cooled. In my life I've always seen a pixel ''die'' and that's it, gone.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

I had my sensor remapped in CPS UK .

So they do have a way to remap the sensor that fixed your problem for months.

I think it should have had this function in the menu like the other C cameras (and all the other 4k highend ones), when you get a dead pixel you remap/black balance and it's gone for a long time.

Could this be added via firmware or is it a hardware unit? It just needs to find the spot and use the image processor to hide it as all the other cameras do. Is this a technically feasible feature request?

 

[zodiac]

Hi Ebrahim Saadwi. I have edited my post. But I'm unsure if I should refer them as stuck or dead pixels. It can be misleading.

I've changed it to 'stuck pixels' because in my case they are not black but red, or white.. Yes it came back fine the first time when I sent it in early this year.

I understand what you mean. I did ask if theres any way that I could perform the procedure myself but they said no. It would be great if we could carry out this sort of maintenance ourselves.

I am curious how would rental houses deal with this. There are a couple of rental houses in the UK that have the 1DC in their inventory.



I will post my findings if they are usefull..

 

[marvinhello]

I have placed an order for the Sony FS7.

FS7 has its own unresolved issues as well (in all compressed format), like highlight aliasing (discoloration at high contrast edges) and overall magenta colour cast. Also the noise pattern in shadow area is appalling, course and blocky, very tricky to clean up.

 

[Jon Roemer]

Very strange. So the pixel is fine and works but dies when heated then works again when cooled. In my life I've always seen a pixel ''die'' and that's it, gone.

I've seen that many times shooting stills. Enough that I'd say it's common on dslrs. The higher the ISO the more likely to get a temporarily stuck pixel, the longer the exposure the more likely get it, the warmer the ambient temperature the more likely to get it. They are not there at base ISO and the lower third to half of the ISO range.

I've also had sensors go bad a few times over ~15 years of digital stills. Clusters of pixels or full lines of pixels across a sensor which are permanently stuck.

 

[Geko]

Dead pixel = black dot
Hot pixel = white dot
Stuck pixel = red/green/blue dot

I have seen two instances of footage with a black pixel, but technically speaking the main 1DC problems seem to be hot and stuck pixels which show only when the sensor gets warm. When it is warmed up however, these bad pixels are visible at all ISO settings.

In our case Canon flatly denied that they had a way of remapping, and they just changed the CMOS of our first camera (or at least that's what they said). Of course, the new sensor developed bad pixels right away, as the loaner and as all other 1DC units, apparently. However, I asked them about remapping many times and they said they had no way of doing this on the 1DC. It is strange that in Zodiac's case they did a remapping. Or they just changed his sensor and lied.

 

[timbook2]

I just read through the whole thread and have one suggestion to offer: next time you go abroad (even more so to a foreign country), do get an insurance for film productions. I have been using one of these special insurance companies from day 1 of my work. These specialized insurance companies even offer coverage for bad weather and other mishaps like main actor walks off the set never to return and such! Of course you can get a limited and specialized package at lower cost.
The other suggestion is to not shoot a documentary in a format that is still in its early stage (4k) and to remember that content rules, not the number of pixels.
Anyway the whole thread was interesting to read. I am sure that once 4k monitors are more common, more people will see the pixel-issue.

 

[Geko]

I just read through the whole thread and have one suggestion to offer: next time you go abroad (even more so to a foreign country), do get an insurance for film productions. I have been using one of these special insurance companies from day 1 of my work. These specialized insurance companies even offer coverage for bad weather and other mishaps like main actor walks off the set never to return and such! Of course you can get a limited and specialized package at lower cost.
The other suggestion is to not shoot a documentary in a format that is still in its early stage (4k) and to remember that content rules, not the number of pixels.
Anyway the whole thread was interesting to read. I am sure that once 4k monitors are more common, more people will see the pixel-issue.

You are right about the insurance.

However, I somewhat disagree that 4K is in it's early stage. 4K is a standard in the film industry now and many feature films are actually already shot in 5K. Just the technology used is not Canon... and for a good reason. Many times you just shoot in 4K and downsampe in post to HD or 2K. That's what we, and many others do. The difference this makes to the picture is amazing, there really is no comparison between doing that and shooting in normal HD.

Also, the hot pixels are very much visible on any normal monitor, even on normal computer screens. No need for a 4K monitor to see them. A 4K monitor helps to see precisely where they are and what is going on, but a footage with bad pixels is ruined no matter what you do with it. In fact when you downsample it it gets even more ugly. Besides... even the new iMac has a 5K monitor now.

And of course, content is king, no doubt about this. But a great picture quality can really be a plus, and that's why we pay this kind of money for equipment and do not shoot with our iPhones Canon has very nice and pleasing colors, as we all agree. They are just not there yet with the resolution technology.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

Are the pixels fixed at the same position? If so they'd be very easily fixed in post with a few clicks in Resolve or Vegas and probably all NLEs, similar to black hole in BM cameras but even easier,

Just trying to help you shoot with the camera if you're in the middle of a business, not trying to justify the problem (it's not acceptable)