Hmm.... thanks for the insightful post. This is not very encouraging news for those of us who had decided to invest heavily in this system, but I must admit that the information you provide is totally in line with our own observations. It seems that the 1DC has issues Canon knows about but would not admit. It looks like they designed the 1DX, then they went... "well, let's make this record 4K and call it a cinema camera" and overlocked, put a bigger heat sink, etc, but it was just not designed from the start to do this. And then the problems came. The ridiculous price tag was another very bad decision, so the camera could not start properly with a bigger client base. All in all this is bad news for us who try to use it and find that it is a good concept.
1DC: Dead Pixels, random errors, terrible support... anyone else?
- Thread starter Geko
- Start date
Hmm.... thanks for the insightful post. This is not very encouraging news for those of us who had decided to invest heavily in this system, but I must admit that the information you provide is totally in line with our own observations. It seems that the 1DC has issues Canon knows about but would not admit. It looks like they designed the 1DX, then they went... "well, let's make this record 4K and call it a cinema camera" and overlocked, put a bigger heat sink, etc, but it was just not designed from the start to do this. And then the problems came. The ridiculous price tag was another very bad decision, so the camera could not start properly with a bigger client base. All in all this is bad news for us who try to use it and find that it is a good concept.
cpreston
Veteran
Like the EOS-M, I'm sure that Canon will decide there is no market for the camera due to low sales rather than realizing it was their own surprising inept handling of the product that killed the camera. In my opinion, the 1DC isn't a highly specialized camera, it is instead the most fully featured DSLR Canon makes. The problem was that the pricing was off, it sold terribly, Canon decided to lock it down with factory firmware updates and then decided the extra hassle wasn't worth supporting it. If, for example, the features of Magic Lantern were available for the 1DC it would have been a far more marketable camera. What's infuriating is that there are so many ways that Canon could have self corrected their initial mistakes with the camera, but it would seem that their corporate culture made it impossible for them to admit a mistake. Even more infuriating is that I assumed that the 100% premium I was paying over the 1DX would be used to help pay for staff for servicing and customer service for the 1DC rather than just being money thrown away. People generally assume that part of what they are paying for with professional, top of the line products is increased customer support and features.
I assume that support for the CX00 series is much better. Actually, my guess is that the main problem with the 1DC was that it was developed by the DSLR division in conjunction with the 1DX and then dumped on the Cinema EOS division. The Cinema division did not want to take ownership of it and just ignored it.
Of course this is all just conjecture since Canon hasn't mentioned the 1DC in years and anybody that actually knows about the camera doesn't want to talk about it and hurt their relationship with Canon. The only thing I know for certain is that the camera has sold poorly enough that a very significant flaw in one of the firmware updates was not discovered until about half a year after the firmware was released. Basically, nobody had updated their firmware and tested the new feature.
I assume that support for the CX00 series is much better. Actually, my guess is that the main problem with the 1DC was that it was developed by the DSLR division in conjunction with the 1DX and then dumped on the Cinema EOS division. The Cinema division did not want to take ownership of it and just ignored it.
Of course this is all just conjecture since Canon hasn't mentioned the 1DC in years and anybody that actually knows about the camera doesn't want to talk about it and hurt their relationship with Canon. The only thing I know for certain is that the camera has sold poorly enough that a very significant flaw in one of the firmware updates was not discovered until about half a year after the firmware was released. Basically, nobody had updated their firmware and tested the new feature.
Canon indeed does not admit any mistakes, which is utterly stupid.
Which feature of the new firmware are you talking about? Please share.
cpreston
Veteran
My problems with the 1DC are covered in this post: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?322671-Line-Level-Input&highlight=
In short, Canon's last firmware update for the 1DC most significant feature was the option to record sound at line level. I bought the camera months after the new firmware was implemented, tried out the line level feature, and discovered that the camera muted the sound whenever recording was started.
In short, Canon's last firmware update for the 1DC most significant feature was the option to record sound at line level. I bought the camera months after the new firmware was implemented, tried out the line level feature, and discovered that the camera muted the sound whenever recording was started.
Thank you, very interesting read. This surely shows the level of attention the 1DC is getting at Canon.
Meanwhile our little saga continues. Canon is making an extra effort to communicate with us while the camera is in Costa Mesa. We have had yet another technician asking us what is wrong with the camera, as if hot pixels have only just been discovered on our planet. They even said that they would change the CMOS "if this is needed" (after we told them to, like 5 times). Now all our hopes and prayers are aimed that someone there might find the muse and inspiration to actually try the 5 minute unfailing procedure to replicate the hot pixel problem. If we succeed with this, well... she sky is the limit!
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We just received word from Canon that they have replaced the CMOS assembly. Finally someone, somewhere, decided that the "hot pixel phenomenon" not only exists, but is not really desirable in a cinema camera.
The 1DC will hopefully be with us in two days time. So now, after exactly 50 days, numerous e-mails and telephone conversations, one unsuccessful attempt of Canon NJ service center and one international plane trip in trying to find a solution to an obvious problem under warranty, we seem to have some resolution. Until the camera comes here and the fix is confirmed nothing is certain, but still, something happened. I will update the thread once more when we have it in our hands. Thank you all for the help and insightful posts.
The 1DC will hopefully be with us in two days time. So now, after exactly 50 days, numerous e-mails and telephone conversations, one unsuccessful attempt of Canon NJ service center and one international plane trip in trying to find a solution to an obvious problem under warranty, we seem to have some resolution. Until the camera comes here and the fix is confirmed nothing is certain, but still, something happened. I will update the thread once more when we have it in our hands. Thank you all for the help and insightful posts.
to my mind one thing is clear - that had no clue about the cam, let alone how to fix it.
Would you like to illustrate the problem with a frame or two?
Let's hope the best, 50 days is a long time.
Yes of course, I posted a picture of the hot pixels on the first page of this thread. Here it is again: http://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2015/02/06/EOS1DC-Hot-Pixels.jpg
There is no real fix for hot pixels apart from a new CMOS. Software remapping can be done but it compromises the picture quality somewhat and is not a real solution. Canon did terrible in terms of support. We hope however that they finally fixed it, but this too has to be confirmed.
Canon conclusion - terrible suppport
Canon conclusion - terrible suppport
58 days after we initially contacted Canon with an in-warranty problems of hot pixels and 1360$ USD of shipping and travel expenses later, the camera is finally back with us with a changed CMOS assembly (imaging sensor). The Canon service report states that they finally did a test and FOUND that the camera exhibits hot pixels (indeed!) and changed the CMOS for a new one.
The camera arrived yesterday with an oily smudged fingerprint across the mirror, but otherwise the hot pixels seem to be gone and so far it seems to be working normally. During this whole ordeal I also was conducting a personal experiment. The focusing screen had some dust on it clearly visible through the viewfinder against a bright background. Not a single speck, a full corner is quite dusty. It came out of the box like this. I wanted to see if during Canon's two quality checks someone will actually look through the viewfinder... You guessed right - they didn't. After two service attempts and two "quality checks" the dust is still there. Not that this bothers me, but is very indicative of what is going on with Canon service.
The recapitulation:
1. Hot pixels appear in our footage, we make first contact with Canon's Cinema Division.
2. We are advised by Canon to get a second 1DC camera and to switch cameras every 15 minutes (!!!)
3. We are told that we can not send the camera from Mexico to any Canon service center for warranty repair, because the centers in the US do not accept foreign shipments. We are told that we can not send the camera to the Mexican service center, because they don't deal with this kind of camera.
4. The camera is sent to our dealer in the US who send it to Canon's NJ service center for repair.
5. The NJ service center acknowledge the hot pixels in their report, but decide to clean the sensor instead and return the camera as "fixed" (!!!)
6. We travel to the US to collect the camera only to discover back home that, of course, nothing was fixed.
7. The camera is sent again to our dealer in the US who send it to another Canon service facility, this time in Costa Mesa. Meanwhile we receive letters from Canon explaining that the people in NJ have not seen this type of camera before and didn't know what to do with it, and assuring us that they have a person in Costa Mesa who knows what he will be doing.
8. We receive direct contact from a technician in Costa Mesa who will be repairing the camera. Despite a number of oddities in the subsequent communication, this person indeed changes the CMOS.
9. The camera is returned to us with a giant smudged fingerprint on the mirror, but otherwise seems to be in working order. This is day 58 since our production stopped and the whole crew went idle.
This is happening with a 12 000 USD "Cinema" camera, which is sold only to professionals, only through Canon's professional dealers network, with personal registration mandatory for each owner and the assurance that any service will be done to the highest professional standard in no more than 5 days.
Everyone can make his/her own conclusions, but our own experience has been incredibly bad. In fact, this was a total fiasco.
Canon conclusion - terrible suppport
58 days after we initially contacted Canon with an in-warranty problems of hot pixels and 1360$ USD of shipping and travel expenses later, the camera is finally back with us with a changed CMOS assembly (imaging sensor). The Canon service report states that they finally did a test and FOUND that the camera exhibits hot pixels (indeed!) and changed the CMOS for a new one.
The camera arrived yesterday with an oily smudged fingerprint across the mirror, but otherwise the hot pixels seem to be gone and so far it seems to be working normally. During this whole ordeal I also was conducting a personal experiment. The focusing screen had some dust on it clearly visible through the viewfinder against a bright background. Not a single speck, a full corner is quite dusty. It came out of the box like this. I wanted to see if during Canon's two quality checks someone will actually look through the viewfinder... You guessed right - they didn't. After two service attempts and two "quality checks" the dust is still there. Not that this bothers me, but is very indicative of what is going on with Canon service.
The recapitulation:
1. Hot pixels appear in our footage, we make first contact with Canon's Cinema Division.
2. We are advised by Canon to get a second 1DC camera and to switch cameras every 15 minutes (!!!)
3. We are told that we can not send the camera from Mexico to any Canon service center for warranty repair, because the centers in the US do not accept foreign shipments. We are told that we can not send the camera to the Mexican service center, because they don't deal with this kind of camera.
4. The camera is sent to our dealer in the US who send it to Canon's NJ service center for repair.
5. The NJ service center acknowledge the hot pixels in their report, but decide to clean the sensor instead and return the camera as "fixed" (!!!)
6. We travel to the US to collect the camera only to discover back home that, of course, nothing was fixed.
7. The camera is sent again to our dealer in the US who send it to another Canon service facility, this time in Costa Mesa. Meanwhile we receive letters from Canon explaining that the people in NJ have not seen this type of camera before and didn't know what to do with it, and assuring us that they have a person in Costa Mesa who knows what he will be doing.
8. We receive direct contact from a technician in Costa Mesa who will be repairing the camera. Despite a number of oddities in the subsequent communication, this person indeed changes the CMOS.
9. The camera is returned to us with a giant smudged fingerprint on the mirror, but otherwise seems to be in working order. This is day 58 since our production stopped and the whole crew went idle.
This is happening with a 12 000 USD "Cinema" camera, which is sold only to professionals, only through Canon's professional dealers network, with personal registration mandatory for each owner and the assurance that any service will be done to the highest professional standard in no more than 5 days.
Everyone can make his/her own conclusions, but our own experience has been incredibly bad. In fact, this was a total fiasco.
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GameTavern
Member
My camera has produced at least 12 dead pixels in it. They show up tremendously bad at HD, and pretty bad at 4K. Noticable only after about 800ISO. I purchased it last February, and it is presently getting a new sensor replacement. The card buffer issue, I've had happen once. my 256GB Sandisk extreme 160 kept stopping. It was very cold at the time, dunno if that had anything to do with it, but it hasn't happened since last march.
That's easy, as you have 12 hot pixels and not just 3 groups as ours, the Canon solution is to just buy 3 more 1DC cameras and switch cameras every 5 minutes. As long as your shooting day is no more than 20-30 minutes you should be fine. Additionally it is a good idea not to shoot video with your cameras but just to shoot stills. If you follow these simple suggestions your troubles will go away.
Generally, it is of no use to overcomplicate our lives - as Canon teaches us, the simple solutions are always the best option.
G
Guest
Guest
I had my camera service in HK, an they were amazing. Even though my camera was purchased in the USA. I did have to remind the clerk that the firmware update was a free service, and she had to look it up. But Canon repair went above and beyond and fixed a few things that they were not contractually obligated to do.
Of course, this was all in the first year of the product's introduction.
Where I felt the service lacked, was the knowledge of their cinema department. Most of them seemed to have little understanding of the 1DC.
G
Guest
Guest
This really felt good to read.
The 1DC was close to being a classic, but never ended up being truly pro. but what do I know.
G
Guest
Guest
sad to read what you went through. edit: I had a difficult time corresponding with them about C-Log for the 1DC. A lot of emails back and forth, and no real answer in the end. I would have thought that a white paper or some more in-depth information about the implementation of C-Log would have been professional, but there is nothing but cursory information.
Let us fellow users know if you have any questions. I love the idea surrounding a professional hybrid camera (Looking like Red Weapon and Sony/Nikon are starting to close the gap from either end.) And we put our money where our mouth is in getting the first pro hybrid: 1DC (warts and all). So, yeah, hopefully as a community we can continue to help and foster.
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ReelWorksMedia
Well-known member
I was actually thinking about picking up a 1Dc. After reading this....there is absolutely no way I would. Really sorry you had to go through this. Unacceptable on every front.
It would have been actually an amazing camera if it worked... But it doesn't. Don't even think about it. Just find a proper cinema camera with proven technology from a company which stands behind their product, whichever it might be.
G
Guest
Guest
I wouldn't totally ignore the 1dc. It is a viable tool, when you compare it to what is actually available. Better low light and more portable than most professional cameras, and better colors and latitude than most prosumer cameras. Records 4k in camera with workable rolling shutter.
But truth be told, it is not a prime time tool. There are some caveats. But it is sometimes worth it.
Though, i find the hot pixels issue completely perplexing, and very glad i never had to put that to the test.
But truth be told, it is not a prime time tool. There are some caveats. But it is sometimes worth it.
Though, i find the hot pixels issue completely perplexing, and very glad i never had to put that to the test.
AndreeOnline
Veteran
That's the magical "power" of the internet right there.
Gecko's story sucks. But it's one user. I haven't heard about this at all prior to reading about it here.
I had a hot pixel on some C100 footage when I had that camera, but that thankfully "healed itself".
If anything, Canon to me plays it on the conservative side. Look at RED and the many debacles they've had with numerous sensor issues. At the end of the day it's technology, and even with today's refined manufacturing processes "**** happens".
That "reality" is by no means an excuse for Canon not handling this properly.
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