D800E - Moire pattern on video

M

Mark Kokkoros

Active member
I'm considering buying this camera. I know that the absence of a "low-pass" filter may increase the likelihood of moire when shooting stills. Will this also increase the likelihood of moire on video as well? Thanks in advance.
 
I wouldn't consider the D800E, even for stills. Look at the test stills on dpreview and you'll find plenty of artifacts. Plus the D800 looks just as sharp with some minor sharpening. It seems like the D800E has even better resolution than the D800, but looking at those samples I would consider the OLPF a good thing. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/27
 
Samuel, talking about pictures the d800e shows definitely less moire than my phase one p45+ digital back. I'm dealing with moire very easily in lightroom.
Besides, I'm using the d800e extensively and I never experienced artifacts as much noticeable as those shown by dpreview.
 
DPreview seem to go out of their way to amplify the slightest flaw in any Nikon.
The D800e is now rated as the best Sensor by DXOmark.
And a drop in Anti-Aliasing filter is being developed by Mosaic Engineering.
 
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Philip Bloom has an extended video comparison of the 5D3, D800, & D4. I is too long to summarize, but well worth watching for the full comparison.

http://philipbloom.net/2012/05/13/fullframeshootout/

If you look at the Fred Miranda Nikon forum there is a lot of detail on the D800 & D800E. I had an 800E on pre-order and was following closely. Unfortunately, I am not working right now so could not justify buying one. There is also a recent Lloyd Chambers review on D800/D800E video that I have not seen - I don't subscribe - but I have seen a summary of it.

With that big of an investment, I'll just point you at those sources rather than try to give my opinion.

Good luck!
Michael
 
RRRoger said:
And a drop in Anti-Aliasing filter is being developed by Mosaic Engineering.
Click to expand...

I just read from Mosicac's site, video filters like this are not to be used for stills.
I suppose that means you will be crippling the best stills camera there is (arguably) for its second-hand video function.
 
ralfmouth said:
I just read from Mosicac's site, video filters like this are not to be used for stills.
I suppose that means you will be crippling the best stills camera there is (arguably) for its second-hand video function.QUOTE]

If it does "cripple" the stills, you could always drop it out.
I have heard that you only put it in for Video where you anticipate moire.
Click to expand...
 
RRRoger said:
If it does "cripple" the stills, you could always drop it out.
I have heard that you only put it in for Video where you anticipate moire.
Click to expand...

I don't know about you guys but I regularly need to take stills too when using a DSLR, even when doing video. In this regard a 5d mark III is simply better because you can take stills while shooting. With the d800 it will switch between settings and that is just way too cumbersome. Also if you will use a filter that takes a long time to put in... then you should buy two bodies, one just for stills. The filter will destroy the stills of the camera.
 
Mosaic Engineering already makes filters for 4 Canon models.
Have those cameras become dedicated to Video or do they shoot Stills with the filter in?

I very seldom need additional filtering when shooting Stills or Video with my D800.
So, if I get one, I could drop it in only when needed.
And, I always use a separate camera to shoot stills while VideoGraphing anyway.
 
I've never used a DSLR so have never really had to deal with Moire. It's the only thing holding me back from the D800 at the moment. How often does one come across moire? And is it easy to spot while shooting? How does the moire on the d800 compare to the 5DII?

Thanks for any advice.
 
Searcher said:
I've never used a DSLR so have never really had to deal with Moire. It's the only thing holding me back from the D800 at the moment. How often does one come across moire? And is it easy to spot while shooting? How does the moire on the d800 compare to the 5DII?

Thanks for any advice.
Click to expand...

The D800 moire is much much better than the 5D2. So far it has not been a problem for me, OTOH I don't run it through endless torture tests that I never find myself in my shooting. The D800 plus AIS lenses shot with neutral picture controlled with dialed down contrast and sharpness, -2 sat; renders a beautiful image, I much prefer it over the 5D2 paired with the same glass and lighting conditions.
 
Searcher said:
I've never used a DSLR so have never really had to deal with Moire. It's the only thing holding me back from the D800 at the moment. How often does one come across moire? And is it easy to spot while shooting? How does the moire on the d800 compare to the 5DII?

Thanks for any advice.
Click to expand...

Philip Bloom installs and tests the mosaic on the D800 here (starting 08:30)
https://vimeo.com/42065372#
Watch aliasing (stair-stepping) on the house boards practically disappear.
Moire however was still all over the window shutters (see the moving diagonals).
I think the filter does help with moire in general. Those shots are just very zoomed in.
 
ralfmouth said:
Philip Bloom installs and tests the mosaic on the D800 here (starting 08:30)
https://vimeo.com/42065372#
Watch aliasing (stair-stepping) on the house boards practically disappear.
Moire however was still all over the window shutters (see the moving diagonals).
I think the filter does help with moire in general. Those shots are just very zoomed in.
Click to expand...
Philip Bloom seemed to only have problems with Moire when shooting 720P. I would prefer to shoot 1080P and dont imagine wanting to shoot 720P so I have a D800E on order. I did consider the D800 but considering I'll spend a fair bit on a lens that is only marginally sharper than a budget lens, why not get the sharpest DSLR available (in stills at least). Stills are my priority with this camera and I am willing to take the risk of potential moire with video.
 
Doing closeup comparisons between D800 and D800E samples, the 800 with the factory OLPF actually resolves real detail a bit better to my eye. The aliasing on the E version, while it looks superficially sharper on casual viewing actually reduces resolved detail in fine patterns that produce moire. I have come to the point where I don't like the crunchy texture of aliased images from cameras without OLPF's The D800 is just smooth, not soft. Definitely more film like. Nikon did a really good job with the OLPF. You can always boost sharpness a bit in post, but detail lost to aliasing and moire can never be recovered.
 
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nwstudios said:
:)
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For example, you are shooting in a dimly lit place. Your previous settings for stills were 1/100 ISO 400. Now you are in moviemode. You decide to take a still. It uses the stillmode settings given you an image that is either over- or underexposed. It forces you to change settings for no real good reason, all the time if you take a lot of stills and video at the same time.
 
maarek said:
For example, you are shooting in a dimly lit place. Your previous settings for stills were 1/100 ISO 400. Now you are in moviemode. You decide to take a still. It uses the stillmode settings given you an image that is either over- or underexposed. It forces you to change settings for no real good reason, all the time if you take a lot of stills and video at the same time.
Click to expand...

I too find this aspect of the D800 particularly annoying - D7000 handled this feature much better. Also, When I take a still in movie mode, Its a still of the actual 16x9 frame (16MP) vs an FX image - it also takes 4 - 6 seconds of locked up camera before it's usable again to record.

Back to the OT, I find moire is controlled enough in 1080p, but goes sour in 720p. I get moire when filming water and detailed patterns, but It's something I can live with these days.
 
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I don't understand too much how people can refer to the philip bloom test to compare those cameras in anyway. Is doing some test in a crowded bar at night of any value. Testing camera (1) 10 guy arround to see that new camera, test (2) 3 beautiful girls comes in at the bar and 9 of them move to chat with them thus 1 to 2 stop more light hitting the subject. Sorry, this is the type of variable we are talking about. Damn, test in a crowded bar at night and people give any credit to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not saying that the D800/e could be the end all be all dslr for video, but it seems that it has been relegated a bit too soon because of some below average testing. What could be a very powerful slr is relegated to s*%t. A D800 with a mosaic filter and ninja could be a true power house, much much better than the 5d3. Much better resolution, better DR and alias/moire free with the VAF, all this recorded at 200 mbit 422 intra proress/dnxhd???????

Just imagine such an image coming out from this big sensor. Tomorrow mine is finally here (I am a pro photographer) and I will do some test comparing it to my gh2. Another camera that has had all the pain in the world to be acknowledged compared to some low rez, alias/moire, low bitrate Canon camera (This part is to talk like the Canon fanboys because I have bought a 7d also, so no camera bias).

What I think this camera can eventually bring in terms of video compared to my very good hacked gh2 is DR and rolling shutter. The most important for me is DR. The Flaat picture profile guy credit it good to about 12 and to certain extreme 12.7 stop of DR. That is a good 1 to 1.5 stop better than the Canons. Unfortunately his test of the hdmi out is inconclusive for me because he had only 720p files to test. Remember we are talking C300 level of DR (Applauded by many at its launch). Perhaps with further testing (1080p hdmi out) we could reach a good 12.5 to 12.7 so very close to the blackmagic camera (Just for those that don't know in RAW mode the D800 is measured at 14.5 stops, the best photo camera to date, so those values in video mode are not fairy tales).

So that is my reality of the d800 now, a camera with so much potential but hey! nothing compares to some side table test in a crowded bar for us to see the potential of this camera.
 
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Hi Danielvilliers I agree with you. I look forward to you posting some examples. What i like about Nikon is that you can put any Nikon lens on from any era and they all work. (You just might have to manual focus some on the cheaper bodies). If you put an EF-S lens on a Canon 5D then the rear lens element can hit the mirror and the older manual lenses will not mount at all. Canon make some great cameras but they seem to be way more popular than their combat ability, and performance warrant in my opinion, but don't worry Nikon used to the bigger player in the 60's & 70's so maybe their time is slowly coming again?
 
Thanks Danielvilliers!
I'm real interested on how the D800 video stacks up against the GH2. Of course, dynamic range aside. ;)
 
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