D5200 Anyone got it ???

Hi, I'm back!

So, a few things...

* beautiful kids :)

* SKIN: yes, the Canons can go a bit uber-magenta sometimes, but you can control that with the Tone parameter; in any case, from the shots here (and the 720p versions at personalview), I also think the nikon skin tones are looking horrible in the ungraded shot; you revived them somewhat successfully with the grade, but for a start the 5D shot looked a lot more alive; I got some skin tone tests with Flaat on the D5200 and they looked great, so, test that out

* 60i: I'm not sure what you're trying to do is going to work flawlessly... When you shoot 24p and the signal is sent out through HDMI, it is wrapped as 60i, but that's PsF, a progressive image encoded as interlaced; you can do a reverse pulldown and get the progressive image back. But when you're recording 60i, the sensor actually captures 60 images a second, not 24, and stores half of the image each time; so, if you run the reverse pulldown over that 60i stream, you get interlacing artifacts. The only way to get a clean progressive image out of that 60i footage is to lose half of your vertical resolution. Or to try/buy the original Magic Bullet, which made some interpolations to restore part of that lost resolution: http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-frames/
 
Samuel H said:
* beautiful kids :)
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I still haven't figured out who the father is, but I'm looking forward to retiring when they get their Victorias Secret contracts.

Samuel H said:
* SKIN:
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I'm testing flaat too, I just wanted to see how close they matched up. I'll include flaat when I do some proper skin tone tests and I'll get onto the dynamic range test when the weather clears up. I have to post the lens cap tests too.

Samuel H said:
* 60i:
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Ahh yes the wrapper. I have to get a Ninja, the codec is really holding this camera back (and the 5D).
 
I'm not sure the ninja will get rid of the FPN. It will keep it clearer so it's easier to remove in post, but the FPN comes from a badly-corrected sensor readout, and happens before the encoder takes effect. I think.

Now, if this camera is as awesome as it seems to be, and the only downside is the FPN... and if you don't find a set of settings that doesn't have that FPN problem... Removing FPN in post is really easy, if you have right tool. I've done it in Matlab with RAW images from the CMV12000, and it was really really easy and worked very well. So... Anybody around with skills to write a relatively simple CS6 plugin? You do all the work, I take $5 per copy :)
 
This is why I've been playing with 60i. I'm hanging to see what happens when you record to a Ninja.

60i 6400 ISO
60i.jpg

24p 6400 ISO
24p.jpg

The FPN is the only major problem I've found, the controls aren't fantastic but everything is fairly easily accessible. I'm hopeful Nikon will address the FPN issue with the D7100 or even with a D5200 firmware update.
 
There is a plugin, Neat Video, which over the past few years has received a fair amount of praise in removing pattern noise. The developer makes plugins for every NLE going. Not sure if off site linking to commercial products is cool here, if they aren't a sponsor.

Has anyone done some whip pans in 60i and deinterlaced to see what the result is like?

Watching this thread with great interest. Efforts and knowledge is appreciated.
 
squig said:
This is why I've been playing with 60i. I'm hanging to see what happens when you record to a Ninja.

60i 6400 ISO
View attachment 67693

24p 6400 ISO
View attachment 67694

The FPN is the only major problem I've found, the controls aren't fantastic but everything is fairly easily accessible. I'm hopeful Nikon will address the FPN issue with the D7100 or even with a D5200 firmware update.
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Can you record 30P to the card? If so I suggest doing a test at 30P with 1/60th shutter. I say this because 60i has to be using a 1/60th shutter. Good luck and thanks for sharing all of this with us.
 
Would it be possible to test the 5DM3 the same way and see how those results compare to the ones for theD5200? This would indicate how bad the FPN is on 5200 relative to other cameras and it would be interesting to see if the 5DM3's interlaced footage also looks cleaner. ;) THANK YOU AGAIN for all your work!! :) :)
 
wow that's a big difference

does exposure in the shadows look the same in 24p and 60i? or is the 60i crushing the shadows a bit earlier?
 
60i is very crushed.

I've run the lens cap tests on the 5D too, I'll post it later. I'm cutting a little film I shot with the D5200 today, I'll put it up on vimeo tomorrow.
 
Neatvideo presets for D5200

Neatvideo presets for D5200

Based on the original footage from camera downloaded from vimeo I developed two Neat video preset settings for the D5200. The footage did not allow me to extract the noise profiles, so just the denoise settings was done.

The conservative version works good for iso up to 3200, use radius 2.


The aggressive version works good for iso 6400 and 12800, use radius 5.


Observation: denoised iso 3200 does not show image tremble, but iso 6400 and 12800 shows some tremble impossible to remove. This tremble issue is generated by the high amount of noise which deforms the image, so when the noise is cleaned, the image tremble a bit.

It is important to say the GH2 shows some tremble in 1600 denoised footage and the D5200 just starts to show it in 6400, so it is 2 fstops improvement. Also denoised iso 6400 and 12800 is pretty usable.

A tip to hide the tremble is to apply a small amount of film grain simulation to the denoised footage.


The two presets are in the zip file attached to this post.

View attachment d5200_neatvideo_presets.zip
 
I've shot similar scene with GH2, latest Nebula 6, Nostalgic -2-2 0 0 and Nikon D5200 Lpowell 1.0 with sharpness +2,
my observations, GH2 shows more detail, resolution, significant enough to make it a choice on wide, detailed shots, D5200 looks a bit soft, on par with 5dmk3, as many observers found similarity of two cameras, making it perfect on mid and close ups.

http://yadi.sk/d/1zLrUjpx30Wjs
http://yadi.sk/d/oKMziAYm30WlA
The links are for original files, please download and make your conclusions,
settings: both cameras 3.2k, iso 160, shutter 1/50, F1.8 focus on the lettering on tea bag on the left.
lenses on GH2, Leica DG Summilux 25mm f/1.4 ASPH, on D5200 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 35mm f/1.4G

I found that Nostalgic on GH2, is very similar in colorimetry to Lpowell 1.0 setting.
having sharpness on D5200 all the way to 0 does not help Nikon, even sharpened it by no means look like GH2, that can be sharpened too. The range on both cameras similar, yet high bitrate of hacked GH2 allows for more shadow recovery.
 
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From what I see the d5200 offers a few stops more DR then the GH2. It allows me to punch in for focus and I can see it in my EVF. The colors are more accurate, even when I hit record. It also is an APC C size sensor which helps when matching up to our Epic and C300. With the right lens and setting it can be very sharp. And with the right exposure noise hasn't been a problem for me.
 
Rigs, have you actually tested them to see the difference in DR? autofocus is faster, more accurate, allowing to lock it, on GH2, the colors, possibly more accurate, but that's matter of taste, further CC, I like it a lot, possibly better than 5dmk3, for that matter both a bit soft, not really match to Epic or C100, C300, from my POV, for event videography, probably D5200 is the best DSLR, overall. Just not as sharp, as GH2.
 
squig said:
60i is very crushed.

I've run the lens cap tests on the 5D too, I'll post it later. I'm cutting a little film I shot with the D5200 today, I'll put it up on vimeo tomorrow.
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I have a suspicion that it's your NLE that's crushing the blacks on the 60i footage. It might be interpreting 60i as being 16 to 235 and 24P as being 0 to 255. If you want to post links to the files, I'll gladly take a look at them, FWIW. ;)


P.S. I don't know now. I've played with the 24P image you posted. I have to clip the blacks as high as 50 to get close to what the 60i image is showing. Clipping the blacks to 16 doesn't get you there. Very strange indeed.
 
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OlegKalyan said:
I've shot similar scene with GH2, latest Nebula 6, Nostalgic -2-2 0 0 and Nikon D5200 Lpowell 1.0 with sharpness +2,
my observations, GH2 shows more detail, resolution, significant enough to make it a choice on wide, detailed shots, D5200 looks a bit soft, on par with 5dmk3, as many observers found similarity of two cameras, making it perfect on mid and close ups.

http://yadi.sk/d/1zLrUjpx30Wjs
http://yadi.sk/d/oKMziAYm30WlA
The links are for original files, please download and make your conclusions,
settings: both cameras 3.2k, iso 160, shutter 1/50, F1.8 focus on the lettering on tea bag on the left.
lenses on GH2, Leica DG Summilux 25mm f/1.4 ASPH, on D5200 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 35mm f/1.4G

I found that Nostalgic on GH2, is very similar in colorimetry to Lpowell 1.0 setting.
having sharpness on D5200 all the way to 0 does not help Nikon, even sharpened it by no means look like GH2, that can be sharpened too. The range on both cameras similar, yet high bitrate of hacked GH2 allows for more shadow recovery.
Click to expand...

What worries me here is that the D5200 is showing exactly the same DR as the GH2, no more, no less. By eye, I would have said the GH2 even had a bit more. But just open both clips in the editor and look at the waveform: they're nearly identical (except the D5200 is using a very small part of the color space for the shadows, that's probably what tricked my eye), and in particular the shadow detail ends in exactly the same parts of the items in the frame.

I still haven't got the D5200 tests for calculating the light-response function, but from earlier tests I was hoping it would be at least on par with the D800, which means a couple of stops better than the GH2.

Could you run a similar test with Flaat_11?
 
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