Liam Hall
Veteran
Agree 100% Doug.
FS7: Custom LUT usefulness
- Thread starter JPNola
- Start date
Agree 100% Doug.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Totally wrong. That is exactly the kind of misguided bad advice I was talking about.
Liam Hall
Veteran
I think he was joking Doug.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I considereded that possibilty but thought it was vague enough to call out as being wrong just so a casual reader of this thread wouldn't get the wrong idea. I don't find posts like that to be helpful in a serious discussion where bad info is bing thrown around as legitimate advice.
Just remembered one more annoyance with the FS7 that Sony could easily fix if they cared. The EX-1 (and I believe it carried over to the F3 but not sure) had an option to get a precise IRE read-out in a
small box in the center of the EVF. This would be a god-send for setting Slog levels but along with other goodies like phase detection AF in the FS700, they inexplicably dropped it from the FS7. Who's awake down there?
small box in the center of the EVF. This would be a god-send for setting Slog levels but along with other goodies like phase detection AF in the FS700, they inexplicably dropped it from the FS7. Who's awake down there?
I understand your frustration Lenny and agree with most of your "rant" earlier as well. I do find Doug's method of using zebras while viewing log in VF the best way to get consistent exposure results while using the FS7. But a large part of that reasoning is because of the pita that is the lut / mlut system that you quite succinctly ranted on ...." stupid menu system won't carry the name of the LUT to the EVF " etc, etc.
I think I would use cameraman Ben's method if this weren't the case. I believe you've asked in the past for a fw update to that menu system... but I'm not holding my breath it'll happen soon.
Unless I'm really going light, I tend to keep my PIX E5 mounted on top of camera - to use as the mlut system for the camera. This gives me instant false color, better, bigger waveform & the ability to switch quickly thru a few of my custom mluts - which I find is helpful when knowing in advance how the grade will likely be done.
I think I would use cameraman Ben's method if this weren't the case. I believe you've asked in the past for a fw update to that menu system... but I'm not holding my breath it'll happen soon.
Unless I'm really going light, I tend to keep my PIX E5 mounted on top of camera - to use as the mlut system for the camera. This gives me instant false color, better, bigger waveform & the ability to switch quickly thru a few of my custom mluts - which I find is helpful when knowing in advance how the grade will likely be done.
starcentral
Veteran
Lenny, that "spot meter" function that you mentioned was voted #2 in a survey I conducted on behalf of Sony's interest in asking members of their forum which exposure tools they were most interested in.
From 4.6 years ago here are the results:
#1 - Waveform monitor
#2 - Spot Meter
#3 - False Color
Now let me review a few things and how they went down:
#1 - it was implemented the size of a thumbnail without any markings. Kind of nice to have, but I don't think what anyone had in mind when they indicated and voted for a "waveform monitor". Should we have been more clear and specified "a waveform monitor that fills approximately 95% of the VF output with markings". Perhaps that was our mistake
#2 - despite coming in second place, it was not implemented at all. :angry:
#3 - false color was only ever implemented via LCD or OLED viewfinder, not by body, but what was implemented was only available for slog2 and never slog3.
So overall this is how i summarize it:
:nads:
I've since moved on, using a light meter and external waveform monitor to figure out my exposure.
From 4.6 years ago here are the results:
#1 - Waveform monitor
#2 - Spot Meter
#3 - False Color
Now let me review a few things and how they went down:
#1 - it was implemented the size of a thumbnail without any markings. Kind of nice to have, but I don't think what anyone had in mind when they indicated and voted for a "waveform monitor". Should we have been more clear and specified "a waveform monitor that fills approximately 95% of the VF output with markings". Perhaps that was our mistake
#2 - despite coming in second place, it was not implemented at all. :angry:
#3 - false color was only ever implemented via LCD or OLED viewfinder, not by body, but what was implemented was only available for slog2 and never slog3.
So overall this is how i summarize it:
:nads:
I've since moved on, using a light meter and external waveform monitor to figure out my exposure.
JPNola
Veteran
This entire discussion took place in the past...
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-pxw-fs7-fs5/531860-fs5-new-zebras-after-v2-0-question-2.html
only it was better the first time.
Alot of the answers you have received concern a fixed frame shot.. but if you are moving from sun to shade.. or two people in different light, you can also use a very old trick.. that might be dying out with the use of stills lenses .. you can pull the stop/Iris.. physically adjust the iris as your shooting.and moving hand held or on a dolly. I did this alot on film and also video.. there is a bit of a art to doing it and disguising it.. and some situations it is going to be noticeable.. but on a move.. through a door way.. round a wall.. you can really get away with it alot.. Chris Menges BSC... used to do it himself on feature films.. probably from his Doc background.. and Im sure the likes of Barry Ackroyd and Roger Deakins also do it.. but now there will a DIT in a tent going nuts if you did it.. or guys only having worked on electronic iris stills lenses who dont even know where the iris is on a lens..
Gee Donny, I never thought of that as a "trick" but just normal obvious camera operating and its only since the popularity of Canon lenses that it has become difficult. (Hopefully you were being sarcastic?) Certainly didn't think of it as a lost art that we need to look to Hollywood DPs to justify. Yikes Have we gone down the path that far!!!!! Is it only us old farts who know how to pull an iris????
I am really enjoying having a manual iris around once again with the 18-110 Sony.
BTW - I'm sure all the questions here referred to extremes within a static shot.
I am really enjoying having a manual iris around once again with the 18-110 Sony.
BTW - I'm sure all the questions here referred to extremes within a static shot.
Yes sure I just throw it in there ,as it hadn't been mentioned.. here is a true and horrifying story.. recently I worked with the Canon CN 30-300 .. a beast of a lens but very good and actually small compared to others.. and very exp to rent.. anyway I thought I,d do some google research before.. and maybe I did something wrong.. but here on the screen was a picture of said lens.. the most awful audio of some dude.. "DP".. commenting on this lens.. he named all its qualities but then boldly stated he personally would never buy it because.. as un believably .. Canon had dropped the ball.. and the lens had neither IS or Auto focus ..!! and I really believe it was not a piss take.. I have heard this before on the inter web .." hey Im like Watup with these lenses... so expensive and no Auto functions.. forget it dude.. Im over it"
It is happening .. its the great dumbing down its here already..
Thank you. That was very helpful. I understand a lot more now.
I do really enjoy a manual clickless iris. In my earlier days I discovered that a manual iris and a viewfinder were good tools for setting exposure when I didn't have zebras or waveforms. The smooth adjustment and instant response make all the difference.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Lol.
Liam Hall
Veteran
No one does that anymore, variable ND is the modern way. Didn't you get the memo?
Memo..seen.. only if it was scratched on a piece of slate .. But I,d love that Variable ND on the new Fs7 and Fs5.. thats pure 24K gold right there..
Me too, Lenny - I used my new 18-110 for the first time in anger last week on another Arctic shoot. I'm having to retrain my muscles - they'd forgotten about manual irises... I think I may actually start to love this lens.
I also used a set of Sam's Half Inch Rails and handles. Sam, they were fab - I'm a complete convert. Very solid and light, they clip off on in an instant for packing down and I can pick up the entire rig from one handle. I've completely ditched the Sony grip and just use the left side Rec start/stop button.
cameramanben
Well-known member
I'm mostly stills lenses but Nikon mount. Mechanical link to the aperture so nice simple ring on the adapter. I have both Optitek for FZ and Metabones Nikon G to Sony E. Don't even need to declick or anything drastic like that. I'm almost all-Sigma on the lens front now so everything focusses the expected way .
Mind you, Nikon has now started to move to electronic-only apertures, and I've just - painfully - discovered that the lovely Sigma 85mm Art has taken this approach. Supposedly one of the reasons is to work better shooting video. HA HA HA! When I've used cameras with EF lenses - primarily the C300 - all that fumbling with a click wheel on the body for aperture seems like a big step back and not my idea of fun. Ditto pushing buttons on an adapter.
On the F5 and F55 I'm told that the Metabones EF to FZ is rather great, feeling and acting like a conventional aperture ring. I'm a bit surprised they haven't come out with an E-mount version,
Ben
.Mind you, Nikon has now started to move to electronic-only apertures, and I've just - painfully - discovered that the lovely Sigma 85mm Art has taken this approach. Supposedly one of the reasons is to work better shooting video. HA HA HA! When I've used cameras with EF lenses - primarily the C300 - all that fumbling with a click wheel on the body for aperture seems like a big step back and not my idea of fun. Ditto pushing buttons on an adapter.
On the F5 and F55 I'm told that the Metabones EF to FZ is rather great, feeling and acting like a conventional aperture ring. I'm a bit surprised they haven't come out with an E-mount version,
Ben
icarusfilm
Veteran
+1
All my Otus Primes are nikon the metabones adapters allow for steples aperture.
All my Otus Primes are nikon the metabones adapters allow for steples aperture.
I'm mostly stills lenses but Nikon mount. Mechanical link to the aperture so nice simple ring on the adapter. I have both Optitek for FZ and Metabones Nikon G to Sony E. Don't even need to declick or anything drastic like that. I'm almost all-Sigma on the lens front now so everything focusses the expected way
Mind you, Nikon has now started to move to electronic-only apertures, and I've just - painfully - discovered that the lovely Sigma 85mm Art has taken this approach. Supposedly one of the reasons is to work better shooting video. HA HA HA! When I've used cameras with EF lenses - primarily the C300 - all that fumbling with a click wheel on the body for aperture seems like a big step back and not my idea of fun. Ditto pushing buttons on an adapter.
On the F5 and F55 I'm told that the Metabones EF to FZ is rather great, feeling and acting like a conventional aperture ring. I'm a bit surprised they haven't come out with an E-mount version,
Ben
JPNola
Veteran
<sarcasm alert>
You guys are dinosaurs. Letting the software control things is where it is at today. Just put the camera on a Movi rig, let the camera self-focus and self-control the iris. All you have to do as "Operator", since no one zooms in shot anymore, is pan and tilt the camera. The operator being "one" with the camera, being "in" the shot as a result of looking into an eyepiece, the operator having to use their body to stabilize the shot, the operator having full control of the camera- that's all so archaic and outdated. You old farts need to work on disconnecting yourselves from the camera and experience the joy of operating looking at the shot on an LCD screen that is 3 feet away, being washed out by sunlight ( "we need MORE nits!!" ), and competing with reflections.
I mean, just look how happy is the bearded hipster Cam Op! He's got almost nothing to do but smile and look good in flannel!!-
Last edited:
I'm mostly stills lenses but Nikon mount. Mechanical link to the aperture so nice simple ring on the adapter. I have both Optitek for FZ and Metabones Nikon G to Sony E. Don't even need to declick or anything drastic like that. I'm almost all-Sigma on the lens front now so everything focusses the expected way
Ben
I used to be all Nikon for the same reason, but then switched to Canon for the advantage of IS. I was torn about which was more important but finally decided that producers no longer expected you to be able to do a smooth iris ramp but IS always made me look better. Then I went all Canon to preserve the same focus direction ( for my mental health.) All got totally confused however because my main IS lens is the Tamron 24-70- which focuses in the Nikon direction anyway. In retrospect I could have kept all Nikon lenses except the 24-70 . Oy Vey! Now I have the 18-110 which focuses in conventional Canon direction. Finally got an iris back anyway.
Sad that Nikon is abandoning the mechanical iris. EF>FZ Optitek is great.