ALL: Curious to know if many use 60p versus 30fps, and when to use it.

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Deer Film

Well-known member
I know some use 60p for doing slow motion effects, just curious to know other uses why people are using 60p.
Another reason is I have a HMC150 and I am looking at some other cameras to get. Some have 60p, and some don't. My clients right now only want videos for web, or DVD. But I do have some projects coming up for a cable TV spot and possible Blue-Ray of a Wedding.
But for seminars and interviews, I assume I don't need 60p for this. Please let me know if I am wrong.
Plus, when you deal with a 60p footage compared to a 30p in post, is there some differences I should be aware of? Bigger file size? Will you see a difference with something shot in 30p vs 60p if your projects is exported to MPeg4? Lets say a conference or interview. Or is Action or wildlife or SFX where you see the difference.
And cameras that offer both, what situation do you turn on or off 60p for the setting?

I just feel that reading many post, the general video guys make it feel you HAVE to have 60p with my next camera they are buying, because that is the way things are headed and with Giant TV's in everyone house. It seems to be more popular then the requested 24fps film look.

And is it going to be 120p later on?

Thanks for your wisdom and help on this.
 
1080/60p means that we have finally defeated interlaced video once and for all. It is used as a replacement for 60i, it has the exact same motion signature but zero interlaced artifacts and higher vertical resolution.

60p is not, however, a broadcast standard. And it may become one, or it may never become one. 1080/60i is the prevailing 1080 broadcast standard. 1080/60p gives you the option to very easily convert down to 1080/60i or 720/60p for release in either standard.

If you shoot "live" footage, using 1080/60i, then 1080/60p is a great upgrade for that. If you shoot "live" footage in 720/60p, then 1080/60p is a great upgrade for that. If you shoot film-style 1080/24p, then 1080/60p adds the ability to do 2.5:1 slow motion for your film-style footage.

So it's a great thing to have in your next camera. But if you're primarily shooting for broadcast delivery in 1080/60i, it certainly isn't necessary to get 1080/60p.

Will it ever go to 120p? Who knows?
 
Thank you very much for explaining.
One last question, I have the HMC150 and have been only shooting at 30p.
Do you recommend shooting at 1080/60i ?
These are interviews, training videos, and conferences for the web, DVd, and soon to be for cable shot I will shoot.
Anything different in post that I would do different for 1080/60i compared to 1080/30p
I feel I should have done this sooner.
DVXuser.com is my number one source for learning new things and my only friends to talk video, thank you for your help.
 
I never recommend using 1080/60i *unless* your client requires it. I despise interlaced video, and do whatever I can to avoid it. If using an HMC150 and needing the "live" look, I'd use 720/60p. If, however, your client requests or requires 1080/60i, then yeah, go ahead and give it to them.

The look of 1080/60i is extremely different from 1080/30p. 60i looks like "live" video, like the news or sports or looking through a window. 30p looks sort of filmish. Very different looks for different purposes.
 
Hi, thanks . I looked at my setting and I was not using 1080/30p, I was using 1080/60i.
I have had good results with this, but I will try 720/60p.
Any downfall in post for 1080/60i? You said you don't like it because of interlaced, just wondering in what way or what problems there is. Maybe I did not notice it, but I have had good luck with doing editing and even green screen with these settings.
I like the 1080 because if I need to crop, it still looks ok when I export to DVD.
 
My 2 cents is 1080/60p mixes well and cuts with anything. There's no adverse effect from down converting it to 1080/30p, or converting it 1080/60i, so might as well just use it all the time.
 
hi deer film,
I'm with Barry and Tom on this. Since acquiring a 160a I shoot exclusively 1080/50p with shutter off (1/50)(.Edit: pal version over here) It will not give the often quoted "filmic look", but it will give incredible imagery and an ability to convert smoothly to any other mode. Most of my work is factual/training and very little artistic productions , so it suits me perfectly. You also will have the best setting for slo-mo too.

By the way, scene files are really important too. After much experimentaion I have created the perfect setting for me. Barry's book is all you need to get to grips with these. Simple, concise explanations of each function will guide you through these settings.
have fun!
Rod
 
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For science/nature doc work I am pretty much using 60p all the time now, along with a higher shutter speed. Part of the reason is that it helps me with exposure in a location where I regularly run out of ND, but the option to reinterpret to 30 or 24 is extremely useful and so far everyone seems to be able to live with 60p 'look' at regular speed. I haven't completely sorted out the 'why' but it also seems to me that there are reduced rolling shutter artifacts at a higher frame rate/shutter speed, I haven't tested this so maybe its mind-projection.
 
I use my AC90 to video horse shows. I had been using a Canon XH-A1, videoing in standard def 60i and delivering the video as standard def DVDs. Before the first show I experimented with shooting in 1080-60p (at 1/120 shutter) and using my editor to convert to standard def DVDs or output to AVCHD DVDs. I closely compared the standard def to my previous standard def (playing the DVDs) and found that the editor (Adobe Premiere Elements 11... I know, not the best but certainly the quickest and delivering the DVDs quickly is VERY important to my clients) did a decent job of downconverting the 60p to standard def - to my critical eye the Cannon shooting in standard 60i resulted in perhaps a slightly better background, but when I had a client compare the standard defs (Canon at 60i vs AC90 at 60p downconverted by the editor) she said she could not tell the difference. The AVCHD high def DVD literally blew her away! So I am shooting everything in 1080-60p and offer "standard def at last year prices" or "high def at slightly higher prices" and everyone wants the AVCHD high def. Plus frames extraced from the high def make great prints at up to 11x14 size... when I produce the DVDs I extract 6 or 8 frames and add them to the beginning of the DVD as a "slideshow." If they like one they can order a print of it, and I use Photoshop to convert the .bmp (that's how Premiere Elements 11 exports a frame) to a .jpg, crop it, and make a print.
 
Is it somehow possible to set HDMI output on AC160A to progressive mode? If I set the recording mode to any of 1080 line modes (even 25p and 50p), the monitor (EIZO CS230) says the signal is interlaced and displays 540 flickering lines instead of 1080.
 
Hi
JBCoons, how do you make a AVCHD high def DVD? Do you use a regular DVD-R for this? I use Vegas and Premier Pro, but will have to look at the settings. When I make a DVD, I export as a Mpeg2 and then send it to my DVD recorder. Quality is reduced a lot from the Mpeg2 compression. So I am very interested in finding out how to produce higher quality DVD's.

Thanks for the help with 60i vs 60p. I will use 60p with my cameras that can handle that.
What do you suggest with HMC150, use 720 at 60p or 1080 at 60i. I want a professional seminar live look. I know Barry mentioned he does not like to work with 60i, but please tell me why. I need to understand the technical aspect. When I use 60i in After Effects, Green Screen, or editing, I have not run into any problems. But that does not mean I can do things better or different. So I am VERY curious to know the down side of 60i.
I guess the only reason why I see an advantage using 60i 1080 vs 60p at 720 is that when I film a conference, I will be able to do some cropping if needed in editing. But if you school me on the tech side of this issue, then I will be more careful on cropping in camera with 60p 720. For those that don't know the HMC150, it does not offer 60p at 1080.
Thanks for being patient and helping me out.

 
Deer Film said:
Hi
JBCoons, how do you make a AVCHD high def DVD? Do you use a regular DVD-R for this? I use Vegas and Premier Pro, but will have to look at the settings. When I make a DVD, I export as a Mpeg2 and then send it to my DVD recorder. Quality is reduced a lot from the Mpeg2 compression. So I am very interested in finding out how to produce higher quality DVD's.
Click to expand...

Here is a thread that talks about it. Also here is another. Keep in mind with the low cost of Blue-ray discs now and the limited DVD space you can use most just use Blue-ray Media. You can buy a stack of 50 Verbatium for around $65.00 online (I just bought some this week for a project). A burner is only $99 for a new 16X, and you can make a replacator system yourself, or buy one premaid cheap.
 
Yes, AVCHD high def video is burned to DVD-R or DVD+R media (I prefer DVD+R). I use Adobe Premiere Elements 11. I setup my project for 60p (of course), edit my video on the timeline, then select the "type" of "output" - file (QuickTime, WMV, AVI, etc), Disc (Blu-Ray, AVCHD, Standard Def), or Web based (Facebook, YouTube, Video). Premiere Elements converts and burns directly to either a disc or a folder, or uploads directly to YouTube or Vimeo. Amazingly easy to do. I have a client that wants 2 disks - one in AVCHD high-def and another in standard-def (she uses the standard def in a laptop that does not have a Blu-ray player) - so I "output the timeline" 2 times, changing the output type - require only 2 inexpensive DVD+R's. Note that I find I can fit about 25 minutes of AVCHD video on a single blank DVD+R. Also note that the bitrate for AVCHD is (I think) about 18MBPS which is lower than Blu-ray, so I suppose the "quality" migh be technically less (I think PS mode on the AC90 is 23-25MBPS). Does this mean I am losing quality going to AVCHD versus Blu-ray? Maybe someone can answer this?
 
I have been trying with Vegas 12 to generate a particular stage event recorded at 1080/60p to Blu-Ray. No success - Vegas crashes part way through each time. I have sent 4 reports to Sony but no response thus far.

I did manage to write out another file to Blu-Ray - looks good, but no sound.

I need to rent a blu-ray movie so I can see if the sound comes thru. It may be my wired connections from the reader to the TV are not right.

And, the blu-ray burner I just bought will not play the one blu-ray disc that plays on the TV.

Lots of things to sort out to get this initiative going.

I find it confusing whether to first render in Vegas (File\Render As) and then load the rendered file into DVD Architect Pro 6 or try to burn direct from within Vegas 12 (Tools\Burn Disc\Blu-Ray Disc).

I can confirm that a reader costs about $75 and that a burner for a desktop (internal) costs around $99.

As for DVDs, I pay $0.22 each (package of 100) whereas the best I have found for blu-ray (package of 10) is a little over $1 each. So blu-ray holds 5 x as much and costs 5 x the price.

But, mostly, its about quality, so any portfolio promo disks you make should be on blu-ray.
 
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Rod Pike said:
hi deer film,
I'm with Barry and Tom on this. Since acquiring a 160a I shoot exclusively 1080/50p with shutter off (1/50)(.Edit: pal version over here) It will not give the often quoted "filmic look", but it will give incredible imagery and an ability to convert smoothly to any other mode. Most of my work is factual/training and very little artistic productions , so it suits me perfectly. You also will have the best setting for slo-mo too.
Click to expand...

I have been using 1080p60 at 1/120 for sports, but will have to try shutter off for other situations. Thanks for pointing that out.

By the way, scene files are really important too. After much experimentaion I have created the perfect setting for me. Barry's book is all you need to get to grips with these. Simple, concise explanations of each function will guide you through these settings.
have fun!
Rod
Click to expand...

I have yet to find the time to play with the settings other than to dial the exposure compensation up and down. I would love to have input from someone who has created a good scene file to deal with action/sports in low light.
 
kwkeirstead said:
I have been trying with Vegas 12 to generate a particular stage event recorded at 1080/60p to Blu-Ray. No success - Vegas crashes part way through each time. I have sent 4 reports to Sony but no response thus far.

I did manage to write out another file to Blu-Ray - looks good, but no sound.

I need to rent a blu-ray movie so I can see if the sound comes thru. It may be my wired connections from the reader to the TV are not right.

And, the blu-ray burner I just bought will not play the one blu-ray disc that plays on the TV.

Lots of things to sort out to get this initiative going.

I find it confusing whether to first render in Vegas (File\Render As) and then load the rendered file into DVD Architect Pro 6 or try to burn direct from within Vegas 12 (Tools\Burn Disc\Blu-Ray Disc).

I can confirm that a reader costs about $75 and that a burner for a desktop (internal) costs around $99.

As for DVDs, I pay $0.22 each (package of 100) whereas the best I have found for blu-ray (package of 10) is a little over $1 each. So blu-ray holds 5 x as much and costs 5 x the price.

But, mostly, its about quality, so any portfolio promo disks you make should be on blu-ray.
Click to expand...

I dont use Vegas, but the first time I tried to burn to blueray or render the media file I had many issues. I then got BD-RW so I could just keep trying. I found that the audio is out of sync unless I create a MPEG file, however when I shot in 24P the sound syncs fine. I do notice it when I view it in Encore.
 
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