Craig's list post poking fun at ludicrous requests for free work

milksac said:
Actually I have some day old pizza in the fridge. I'll include that for lunch.
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No wonder you are so grumpy!

Swing by my set, my crews are famous for picking up weight cos I feed em so much!
How is $50 per month?
Some guy at the Gumdance festival said it will be numba 1! (Or was it Slumdance).
AND you can keep some footage for your show reel!
 
Yea I should add to my post saying I had a crew of volunteers for the day. If you get um for free you better feed um amazing!
I spent well over $300 bux on catering and craftie for the one day of shooting.
 
@Wilbur... all I'm saying... to everybody... is yeah... do a few free gigs if you have zero experience, but try to get something out of it. There will come a time when you realize you aren't going to learn anything new, or make any new and/or better connections in many of these free gigs. When that happens... if you can't turn it into "real" work... it's time to get a regular job.

I said this a long time ago, and I stand by it... for the most part, free work leads to more free work, and paying work leads to more paying work.

You gotta' get your start somewhere... just don't get bogged down "living" in the starting block.
 
All I know is my loan automatically pays for itself. You know, $50,000 lenses should be free to anyone with an idea afterall....
 
I think there's a difference between helping out friends/returning favors (I've done it), or having a good reaction to a person or their proposal (done it), and some of the over the top, arrogant requests (near demands) for free crew on CL. That's why an extreme parody like in the OP is not so... extreme...

But there's the undeniable effect free/$50 jobs have on the real/reel marketplace...
 
dcarstens said:
...but I would benefit by gaining great footage for me reel.
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This is the worst. I don't know what it is that makes people so clueless as to repeat this over and over, like they're doing me the favor. It's just insulting. If you can't pay me in cash, you damn well better pay me with some respect, or I won't show you any and I'll walk.
 
ChrisHurn said:
OldCorpse,

There is a big difference between doing work for free for somebody who's got a passion for their film - and respects the crafts of the respective artists/actors/crew etc, and somebody who posts on craigslist and says something like

'yo what up i need some free music, 100 minutes total, has to be as good as john williams, if not don't apply, p.s i need it tomorrow'.

A lot of people are willing to work for free if the person leading the project is passionate, dedicated, actually interested in making a good film and not just filling spaces. They can be a newbie - that's fine. Everybody's new to something, but the important part is they care.
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Right. Which is why you are not obliged to work for free. You pick and choose - if you can even afford it, or want to. I wouldn't get involved with a project that I don't find interesting for one reason or another - and I get to decide what I find interesting (whether I'm right or wrong).

However - to just give one example - sometimes you do it for free, because it gives you experience you'd never have otherwise, like I'm not a DP by training or ambition, but I was willing to do a DP job on a short because there was nobody else available. I learned a lot - but I would feel silly asking for money, because a professional DP would have done it twice as fast and twice as good (or better). Still, it was an opportunity for me to grow - and I took it. I've read a lot about cinematography, and done my own little experiments and so on, but it's different when you do it for someone else. It was valuable to me. I would do so again, if the right project came along.
 
If someone put up an ad looking to put a band together, saying he needed dedicated souls who really know how to play and I wanted to play in a band, I wouldn't say no because he couldn't pay me. If we split any profits from a gig that'd be fine. If he was the one who payed for all the expenses, like a place to rehearse and posters and rented a studio to do a demo, I wouldn't even mind if he took a much larger piece of the profits from any gig or CD we sold.

I certainly wouldn't tell him to pay me money for every hour I practice my guitar, and I wouldn't tell him I spent a lot of money buying my own equipment so that should also go into my salary. I know a lot of musicians get payed well, but this guy who's just putting a band together to play with doesn't own a club where he can play with that band and get money coming in.

Likewise, I'm sure most people on Craig's List don't own distribution companies so they can actually sell the films themselves.
They want to make a movie and they're looking for like-minded people to make it with.
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
If someone put up an ad looking to put a band together, saying he needed dedicated souls who really know how to play and I wanted to play in a band, I wouldn't say no because he couldn't pay me. If we split any profits from a gig that'd be fine. If he was the one who payed for all the expenses, like a place to rehearse and posters and rented a studio to do a demo, I wouldn't even mind if he took a much larger piece of the profits from any gig or CD we sold.

I certainly wouldn't tell him to pay me money for every hour I practice my guitar, and I wouldn't tell him I spent a lot of money buying my own equipment so that should also go into my salary. I know a lot of musicians get payed well, but this guy who's just putting a band together to play with doesn't own a club where he can play with that band and get money coming in.

Likewise, I'm sure most people on Craig's List don't own distribution companies so they can actually sell the films themselves.
They want to make a movie and they're looking for like-minded people to make it with.
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Very nice metaphorical analogy thingie.

I think the Craigslist example from the OP explains the mindset of newbie clients perfectly.
The public generally have no idea what video work actually costs but it is really pathetic to make fun of clients when they are ignorant.

Too many bitter creative industry people out there - It really makes a fun industry sour bumping into them from time to time.
 
Another quick tip for producers posting on craigslist:
Always offer deferred pay. This creates a false hope that they will be paid eventually. If your film does end up making money remember to pay yourself first and then pay the accountant. As long as you hire a good accountant you won't have to worry about paying anyone else on the crew.
 
OldCorpse said:
here's what I find funny. There are tons and tons of people who buy gear: cameras, mics, lights, dollies, sliders, lenses, blah, blah, blah. Then... nothing! They sit on all that gear, dreaming. They would be better off doing something with it, gathering experience, doing it for FREE. That's better than sitting on your a$$ doing nothing.
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+1, you raise a good point.
 
I really don't have a problem with someone on Craigslist wanting to put together a crew to make a movie. That's a labor of love kind of thing with film makers who are idealistic and in it for the art. If I had the time and money (that never seems to happen at the same time), I'd probably volunteer for the experience of putting together an indie. No, what I'm talking about are businesses who want to do a TV show or a commercial where they will be making money off the product you make them. To put it another way. If an artist wants me to make a music video for them for free, I'd probably say no but there's no hard feelings. If a record label expects me to work for free for the same job, then I get pissed. It's the people who have money, who know that we do costs money but refuses to pay money and expects an amazing product that gets under my skin. In other words, I have no problem with poor people with a passion wanting work for free but not people who are simply cheap.
 
Wilbur Eddings said:
Yeah, I guess it makes sense that anyone wanting to do a project with no money should just give up and not try to recruit like minded folks.

The whole 'one in a million' thing reeks of condescending pessimism and it is a stench that fills my nostrils often of late!
(@Mattin - Your post was constructive, comment was not aimed at you, that line just rang a bell in my head.)

I think most creative industry 'professionals' have either never got the real point of creative expression or they simply lose their way.
Hear me out:

I have done tons of stuff for free (or heavily discounted). It has been 16 years of taking any chance I get to help up and coming musicians, stage productions, music videos, movies, whatever because I love creating.
I have really seen the fruit of that seed in the past year or two when I have worked on my own micro features and passion projects - also getting lucrative offers from people I helped 10 years ago to Direct or Produce etc.

Obviously I have had to pay the bills on the way up, but when I could not volunteer my services I have always invited the aspiring talent for a cup of coffee and given them as much advice as possible.

My point?

I get the whole 'I'm a professional, pay me' thing. Heck, I charge 15% of total production budget to Direct. I get it, I do. Don't muzzle the Ox, the workman is worth his wage and all that.
BUT
WTH are you doing in the creative industry if the only time you are willing to create or help others create is when you are getting paid?
Have you forgotten what it was like in the beginning?
It's almost impossible to get a decent music video done, let alone a short film or a full length feature!
@Chris Are you kidding me? Being willing to work for free is 'enabling'.

OMG!

Hey wait, here's an idea (prepare for sarcasm).

Lets all become little Hollywood wannabees and stop producing creative works passionately!
It's all about the money baby!
Lets make fun of other film makers and newbie film makers when they don't get it right!
And let's NEVER volunteer our services ESPECIALLY if we are 'professional'.


Final Rant:
The ONLY way there will be enough paying work to go around for the 'professionals' is if more aspiring film makers, bands etc. need our services.
Where do you think those people come from?
A mud pit in Isengard?
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Doing stuff for free that you believe in isn't the issue here... I will gladly do a music video that I think is worth my time.. but people on craigslist more often-than-not are expecting things that DO require money, and require significant time investments. Or REQUIRE you to provide everything... camera / lighting / crew etc... That is why it's ridiculous. There are only so many hours in a given week...

Also if you start doing too much stuff for free you pigeon hole yourself into a corner.

It's not that people want to be Hollywood wannabe's but why do people expect professional work for nothing? It is called Professional for a reason.

People are just cheap f**ks. Through and through.

On the flipside.. there are too many morons doing **** for free cause they can... they live at home still.. and undercut the whole industry and drag it down. Tools may be getting cheaper.. but tools were never the issue.. it's always been about people; too many of these ads think that they are paying for a bunch of gear.

Then again.. craigslist is hit or miss.. there can be some diamonds in the rough.
 
I wonder what the difference is between an ad like this and any number of countless internships.

Quite a few people doing internships have already gone through the college process (which in film terms means typically generating a decent reel and potentially some level of professionalism), but typically the line is drawn once the person has received paying jobs for whatever it is they do. Once you start making money, working for free on any terms seems kind of counterintuitive.

However it seems to me that regardless of how much education a person has or how much they've spent on their equipment, if they have yet to be paid/employed consistently for their knowledge base, the notion of an internship could still apply.

So if a someone asks a budding director to work on a film for free, regardless of reel or experience, if that director isn't a professional working director, I think there's room for "interships".
 
Every free gig I have ever done, and every gig that I did and was suppose to get paid and didn't had one thing in common, Starbucks was there... and starbucks got paid. At my development meetings they get paid, in preproduction they get paid, in the edit room they get paid. Those bastards!

With my starbucks rant I've successfully negotiated at least an honorarium from some of those producers wanting free production work for their latest projects.

I've met so many great friends on volunteer gigs, I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. Are people ruining the industry by asking for free video production on craigslist. No waaaaaaay, a lot of times they actually help it. Some people try to be the craigslist "production police" by blasting every person looking for free help. I think its just a waste of their energy.
 
The issue is this, a lot of these "free" gigs are for webcontent that is making the "client" money. If its a short film, sure freebie is ok sometimes. However a lot of these are for small companies doing things for their websites and whatnot. If you had any idea how many MTV web promos were shot for free.....
 
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