Craig's list post poking fun at ludicrous requests for free work

Philip Goetz

Philip Goetz

Well-known member
http://austin.craigslist.org/cwg/2441446246.html

>>>

I need a professional video guy (austin)

Date: 2011-06-15, 2:20AM CDT
Reply to: gigs-4m2fy-2441446246@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

Since video/film isn't a real industry, I need a professional to create a video for me using your own equipment and creative ability for absolutely no pay. Sure, there are people who get paid big bucks to do what you're doing, but I'm looking to exploit the desperate fools looking for "experience."

Don't bother quoting me industry rates, I'll ignore them. I expect a high quality product for free. Please send me links to your best work, for which you may or may not have been compensated. All information is confidential, for my business is very high profile. If you are chosen, I will gladly welcome you with open arms.

Fish sticks and granola bars provided. Future paid opportunities await.


Location: austin
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: fish sticks
PostingID: 2441446246
 
My personal favorites are:

• Person posting has no professional experience, yet expects a pro to respond.
• No links to any websites, reels, business or personal names, or contact information.
• No indication of any business acumen, no marketing plan.
• "When our film gets to Sundance..."

Some of these people must have huge egos. It's just amazing. Ads like the one posted (that aren't jokes, but "serious") have of course popped up in increasing numbers in the last couple years. In my home town more than a few pros have been posting follow-ups calling them out.

:Drogar-BlackEye(DBG
 
I'm waiting for the replies from people who have found their way into the industry via gigs like this... because it's possible, but for the most part, it's just people looking to take advantage of other people. (Those replies are akin to the "never give up on your dreams" speeches by the one-in-a-million success story actors.)

I'm hear to tell you that if you have zero experience, but some gear that you want to learn how to use (have SOME knowledge of the gear first) then it doesn't hurt to do one or two of these gigs (be truthful about your experience)... but ONLY do a gig like this if the people involved are cool, you'll be the one using your own gear, and it sounds as if the experience or product of your contribution is worth it FOR YOU... when the project is done.

You'll keep seeing these postings on craigs... because they work. This is a lesson in economics 101.
 
Love it! My favorite is an ad on the Dallas Craigslist wanting a music video shot for (wait for it) FIFTY DOLLARS. Not $50 an hour but $50 total. Unfortunately, this is a disturbing trend on Craigslist where many people looking for video work aren't ready to pay anything. Of course this behavior is enabled by videographers who are willing to work for free so there's that I guess.
 
Yeah, I guess it makes sense that anyone wanting to do a project with no money should just give up and not try to recruit like minded folks.

The whole 'one in a million' thing reeks of condescending pessimism and it is a stench that fills my nostrils often of late!
(@Mattin - Your post was constructive, comment was not aimed at you, that line just rang a bell in my head.)

I think most creative industry 'professionals' have either never got the real point of creative expression or they simply lose their way.
Hear me out:

I have done tons of stuff for free (or heavily discounted). It has been 16 years of taking any chance I get to help up and coming musicians, stage productions, music videos, movies, whatever because I love creating.
I have really seen the fruit of that seed in the past year or two when I have worked on my own micro features and passion projects - also getting lucrative offers from people I helped 10 years ago to Direct or Produce etc.

Obviously I have had to pay the bills on the way up, but when I could not volunteer my services I have always invited the aspiring talent for a cup of coffee and given them as much advice as possible.

My point?

I get the whole 'I'm a professional, pay me' thing. Heck, I charge 15% of total production budget to Direct. I get it, I do. Don't muzzle the Ox, the workman is worth his wage and all that.
BUT
WTH are you doing in the creative industry if the only time you are willing to create or help others create is when you are getting paid?
Have you forgotten what it was like in the beginning?
It's almost impossible to get a decent music video done, let alone a short film or a full length feature!
@Chris Are you kidding me? Being willing to work for free is 'enabling'.

OMG!

Hey wait, here's an idea (prepare for sarcasm).

Lets all become little Hollywood wannabees and stop producing creative works passionately!
It's all about the money baby!
Lets make fun of other film makers and newbie film makers when they don't get it right!
And let's NEVER volunteer our services ESPECIALLY if we are 'professional'.


Final Rant:
The ONLY way there will be enough paying work to go around for the 'professionals' is if more aspiring film makers, bands etc. need our services.
Where do you think those people come from?
A mud pit in Isengard?
 
Chris Watson said:
Love it! My favorite is an ad on the Dallas Craigslist wanting a music video shot for (wait for it) FIFTY DOLLARS. Not $50 an hour but $50 total. Unfortunately, this is a disturbing trend on Craigslist where many people looking for video work aren't ready to pay anything. Of course this behavior is enabled by videographers who are willing to work for free so there's that I guess.
Click to expand...

If I were to want to teach myself how to do a music video, I'd take it. Lazy way of finding a band to do it for. :)
 
Spot on Wilbur!

Young people should be encouraged to give away their services for free. This will help small untalented bands everywhere to have the music videos they've always wanted to show off to friends and family. Giving it away will also drive down the value of production services, this will help us take advantage of these naive young people - pure genius on that one Wilbur. Chris' mocking of the $50 music video is insulting to all of us. Fifty dollars is a lot of money in todays tough economic times, it's like 5 ten dollar bills. It's unreal that some people have the balls to demand a decent wage for services delivered. C'mon they can bus tables or mow lawns to make the money if needed. The people in this business that should be rewarded are producers like us who have already paid their dues. We have earned the right of free labor from the desperate ones just entering the market. You're right, it is enabling to demand free labor. I've earned it - you will work for free or you will not work at all. I'm giving these kids an opportunity for future work - what more do they want?. Kids these days have it so easy; they live with their parents so they don't have to pay rent, no utility bills and they get free meals. I have huge car & insurance payments on my Benz as well as payments on a condo that's upside down. Geez. All I'm saying is, cut me some slack and give me some free labor because otherwise I'm going to have a tough time making the note next month.

BTW, the stuff on "passion" is pure gold. The kiddos drink this stuff up like cool aid.
And thanks for the help in writing the craigslist ad last month. The kids came running like moths to flame all for a chance to work for free. Awesome stuff. You rock Wilbur!
 
milksac said:
Spot on Wilbur!

Young people should be encouraged to give away their services for free. This will help small untalented bands everywhere to have the music videos they've always wanted to show off to friends and family. Giving it away will also drive down the value of production services, this will help us take advantage of these naive young people - pure genius on that one Wilbur. Chris' mocking of the $50 music video is insulting to all of us. Fifty dollars is a lot of money in todays tough economic times, it's like 5 ten dollar bills. It's unreal that some people have the balls to demand a decent wage for services delivered. C'mon they can bus tables or mow lawns to make the money if needed. The people in this business that should be rewarded are producers like us who have already paid their dues. We have earned the right of free labor from the desperate ones just entering the market. You're right, it is enabling to demand free labor. I've earned it - you will work for free or you will not work at all. I'm giving these kids an opportunity for future work - what more do they want?. Kids these days have it so easy; they live with their parents so they don't have to pay rent, no utility bills and they get free meals. I have huge car & insurance payments on my Benz as well as payments on a condo that's upside down. Geez. All I'm saying is, cut me some slack and give me some free labor because otherwise I'm going to have a tough time making the note next month.

BTW, the stuff on "passion" is pure gold. The kiddos drink this stuff up like cool aid.
And thanks for the help in writing the craigslist ad last month. The kids came running like moths to flame all for a chance to work for free. Awesome stuff. You rock Wilbur!
Click to expand...

lol.

So no free lunches then?
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
There's a fine line between paying your dues as a youngster and being taken advantage of. Very very fine line.
Click to expand...

Obviously people will try and take advantage of you.
In the end, you set the parameters of your working relationship - free or paid!

Those who do not set parameters for every job will always be screwed over to some degree.
Thus you determine who you help, how much you are willing to help them and how long you are willing to offer your services.
I really don't understand why helping newbies is such a massive issue.
Help them out and help them understand how the industry works - I've done it for others, others have done it for me and we are all better off for it!

I can't believe I am arguing on a forum.
I feel like such a Troll right now.
Bleh.
 
I hear similar complaints over at another forum I sometimes frequent, where there are a lot of actors and extras as well.
Extras ***** all the time online about working a whole day and usually not getting more than a cup of coffee and a free movie ticket.

Bottom line is, there's not a single position in the business where people don't work for free on some jobs.
The only ones IMO who have the right to complain are the PAs and Runners. That work is often harder and more ungrateful than most other positions on a set, and at the end of the day you're still just a ****ing PA.

This is actually really very simple. If you don't want to work for free, then don't work on microbudget projects. If it's a feature film, and the budget is under 500 grand, don't take the gig.
 
I don't get this. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. Don't want to work for free? Then don't - problem solved! Meanwhile, here's what I find funny. There are tons and tons of people who buy gear: cameras, mics, lights, dollies, sliders, lenses, blah, blah, blah. Then... nothing! They sit on all that gear, dreaming. They would be better off doing something with it, gathering experience, doing it for FREE. That's better than sitting on your a$$ doing nothing.

The other thing I find funny. A lot of people do their own projects and don't expect to get paid on their labor of love. I mean, how many people write their own short or feature and then finance the the production themselves while directing/producing/doingX. For free. What's the difference between doing that for yourself and doing it for someone else - like a friend? I've helped out friends for free before - unstinting, not holding back, going all in, 24/7, with passion. So now we see, that people are willing to do this not just for themselves, but for someone else - a friend. So why not a stranger (who may, or may not become a friend)? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? You are still doing it for free - no matter if for yourself, your friend, or a stranger. Nothing changes. So why all the hate?

Again, you don't want to do it - fine. Go get paid, and STFU. What business is it of yours how other people choose to gain experience, or do something simply for the passion of it? Nobody is asking you to work for free - so don't ask others not to work for free either. It's a free country.

Making fun of other people's choices is rarely productive - and most often comes from a lack of understanding.
 
I never understood why people are so quick to rip on someone for placing an ad that is asking for volunteer style work.
If you are offended by it, or feel it's simply below you to take such a project, read it, realize its not for you, move on with your life.

I get asked a fair amount to work for free on peoples projects.
98% of the time I'll say a polite no and tell them good luck. Every once in awhile if I like the person or like the project
I'll say yes. (I'm actually working for free for someone all next weekend).

I put together an entire small crew to work on one of MY projects who all volunteered their time as well.
So what comes around goes around.

No one is forcing anyone to take these jobs so why the hostility and hate towards it?

Say no and move on.
 
Obviously this goes both ways. You're free to work for nothing, if the project strikes your fancy. And you are equally free not to get involved on a project for free, either because you don't like the project (and so they'd have to pay you $ to get involved), or, well, you got bills to pay. Many pros simply cannot afford to work for free. They may still be paying off their gear. It may be a hobby for the guy putting in the ad for free labor, but if it is a profession for the reader of the ad, then obviously they cannot afford to give away the labor... there's only that many hours in the day, if you spend them not making money, it means you can't pay your bills. So no hate either way. I wouldn't - ever - criticize anyone for choosing not to get involved in a project for free. But then again, I would not criticize anyone for doing it for free.

Of course, there is one other consideration - but we can't talk about it here, because it is against the rules of dvxuser - the question of unions, scabs, why unions formed, labor-busting with free/underpaid labor, blah, blah - you know what I mean. It's relevant to the issue, because it affects the labor market everyone there, both amateur and professionals and those who are just breaking in, but unfortunately it falls outside of the TOS.
 
I especially love when I'm contacted out of the blue by someone with zero set experience, who starts off telling me my reel is amazing and that I would be perfect to shoot their film. However, since they have no money I would need to volunteer my services and resources, but I would benefit by gaining great footage for me reel.

...have they just forgotten that they'd just viewed my reel? It think my reel will be just fine, unless your no-budget film has massive pyrotechnics going off behind Meagan Fox, thanks!
 
OldCorpse,

There is a big difference between doing work for free for somebody who's got a passion for their film - and respects the crafts of the respective artists/actors/crew etc, and somebody who posts on craigslist and says something like

'yo what up i need some free music, 100 minutes total, has to be as good as john williams, if not don't apply, p.s i need it tomorrow'.

A lot of people are willing to work for free if the person leading the project is passionate, dedicated, actually interested in making a good film and not just filling spaces. They can be a newbie - that's fine. Everybody's new to something, but the important part is they care.
 
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dcarstens said:
...have they just forgotten that they'd just viewed my reel? It think my reel will be just fine, unless your no-budget film has massive pyrotechnics going off behind Meagan Fox, thanks!
Click to expand...

HAHAHA! Make that some kind of alternative marketing blurb:
"Have no money? Well just organize some uber hotties and Espionage films will be there in a flash!"

Be sure to protect yourself against the sneaky ones with this clause:
"No chancers, men in wigs don't count!"
 
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