Covid camera!
- Thread starter morgan_moore
- Start date
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
You seem big on panasonic.
I own a GH4* and find it putrid both colour and ergonomics. My understanding is the AF is worse than useless.
Ive rented a GH5s and consider the log better than my FS7 if a little oversharpened.
Sell me panasonic
Maybe my money best into a cage and decent mft zoom.
*and xlr yagh box !
You see ive been here before - thingking the yagh was it. But the xlr clashing with the right hand, audio delays and multiple other problems made it just not a thing - those current top mount XLR boxes look horror too - instant snap off. Sound is almost best kept on a bag on the shoulder!
I own a GH4* and find it putrid both colour and ergonomics. My understanding is the AF is worse than useless.
Ive rented a GH5s and consider the log better than my FS7 if a little oversharpened.
Sell me panasonic
Maybe my money best into a cage and decent mft zoom.
*and xlr yagh box !
You see ive been here before - thingking the yagh was it. But the xlr clashing with the right hand, audio delays and multiple other problems made it just not a thing - those current top mount XLR boxes look horror too - instant snap off. Sound is almost best kept on a bag on the shoulder!
Last edited:
ahalpert
Major Contributor
panasonic was the first and best to implement proper video processing on stills bodies (full readout, 10-bit 4:2:2, all-i codecs). canon had god knows what going on. sony is still 8-bit 4:2:0. nikon only does log thru hdmi. fuji has achieved parity with panasonic for processing (except 420 not 422).
gh5 color was better than gh4. s1 color better than gh5 and now with full v-log, not v-log L of the gh5 with 2 stops less DR than full v-log. i own gh2, gh4, gh5, and s1. s1h has better codecs than s1, which only does 150mbps 10-bit long-gop 4:2:2 internal but good enough for what i needed it for. low-light beast. 4k60p available in aps-c crop.
the autofocus isnt there by comparison to canon/sony/fuji. they all use phase detect, panny uses contrast-detect. supposedly firmware has improved it on gh5 but i don't bother. i'm full manual. i bought lumix cameras for the codecs/processing/4k60p. but for some shots i wish i had AF.
if you want AF, don't go with panny. I know the pixel-to-pixel crop-in is available on sony cameras and other cameras, too. it's not just panasonic. i just don't know about the nikon, didn't see it in a quick menu look.
never played with the yagh, alwats done dual-system. gonna try out my new zoom f6 into camera when shooting gets going again.
if i had to sell you, i'd sell you on fuji, it's like panasonic but with better autofocus. you get 10-bit log internal from full read-out. you're buying a new 16-80 anyway so all you lose is af from your 70-200.
looks like the fuji will at least give you a 1.29x crop in-camera, not sure about if it goes tighter
but again, i've never used one extensively. but they seem well-designed
gh5 color was better than gh4. s1 color better than gh5 and now with full v-log, not v-log L of the gh5 with 2 stops less DR than full v-log. i own gh2, gh4, gh5, and s1. s1h has better codecs than s1, which only does 150mbps 10-bit long-gop 4:2:2 internal but good enough for what i needed it for. low-light beast. 4k60p available in aps-c crop.
the autofocus isnt there by comparison to canon/sony/fuji. they all use phase detect, panny uses contrast-detect. supposedly firmware has improved it on gh5 but i don't bother. i'm full manual. i bought lumix cameras for the codecs/processing/4k60p. but for some shots i wish i had AF.
if you want AF, don't go with panny. I know the pixel-to-pixel crop-in is available on sony cameras and other cameras, too. it's not just panasonic. i just don't know about the nikon, didn't see it in a quick menu look.
never played with the yagh, alwats done dual-system. gonna try out my new zoom f6 into camera when shooting gets going again.
if i had to sell you, i'd sell you on fuji, it's like panasonic but with better autofocus. you get 10-bit log internal from full read-out. you're buying a new 16-80 anyway so all you lose is af from your 70-200.
looks like the fuji will at least give you a 1.29x crop in-camera, not sure about if it goes tighter
but again, i've never used one extensively. but they seem well-designed
cyvideo
Veteran
Agreed on the first comment. You have wicked sense of humor. I had to laugh! You are right on the second. I just feel with what has happened, C-19 and all and what is currently happening Stateside it's all becoming a bit dystopian. For this sort of mixed up world you are right again. Many cameras may be the solution
Chris Young
NorBro
Major Contributor
Not sure if it was really understood what he meant or not, but I think by "steal" he was implying "snipe".
So if you're filming something (with permission) but you're far away, a quick push-button crop feature like the Panasonic has (and other cameras) could get you that close-up that's really necessary.
I'd wait a couple of weeks if possible...new cameras are coming.
So if you're filming something (with permission) but you're far away, a quick push-button crop feature like the Panasonic has (and other cameras) could get you that close-up that's really necessary.
I'd wait a couple of weeks if possible...new cameras are coming.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Well I just clicked buy on a nikon z6 with adapter.. £1300 of which Ill reclaim 20% in tax.
I know amazon returns dont come up that often so I just went for it.
a z50 is about £900 with adapter but a 16-80 cots £500 - total £1400
a z6 and adapter £1300 and cheapper 24-120 is £300, Total £1600.
not too much difference.
But I dont need the lens now as I have a load of MF nikon glass that can sit for now.
The nikon also takes XQD from my FS7 (i have 3)
My chummo (in fact two) have a z6 - we can swap batteries and I can swipe thier z lenses
and unlike the z50 it has earphone socket and 10bit log out to my shogun which I already own
I also already own B+W filters, rode vid mic, tiffen vari nd from my 5d days
this should be an adequate 'covid camera' stripped down and built up could have some postive effects on my 'pro' work being that 4k 10bit and 70/200 AF might outdo my fs7
Time will reveal if this is a good choice vs a small video cam
I know amazon returns dont come up that often so I just went for it.
a z50 is about £900 with adapter but a 16-80 cots £500 - total £1400
a z6 and adapter £1300 and cheapper 24-120 is £300, Total £1600.
not too much difference.
But I dont need the lens now as I have a load of MF nikon glass that can sit for now.
The nikon also takes XQD from my FS7 (i have 3)
My chummo (in fact two) have a z6 - we can swap batteries and I can swipe thier z lenses
and unlike the z50 it has earphone socket and 10bit log out to my shogun which I already own
I also already own B+W filters, rode vid mic, tiffen vari nd from my 5d days
this should be an adequate 'covid camera' stripped down and built up could have some postive effects on my 'pro' work being that 4k 10bit and 70/200 AF might outdo my fs7
Time will reveal if this is a good choice vs a small video cam
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I already have a shogun (and a black magic from my F3) so I think 10bit 4k log will do me for now. There are things that I dont like about the z6 and raw - not that I can remember them - maybe no AF and no 120p and a latency.
Ive researched the camera as a 'cinema camera' (fs7 repleacement?) and was not too impressed
If you see it as a covid camera that happens to have bonus 10 bit out it is great.
If you buy it as a pro res raw cinema camera then it is a let down.
As a replacement for EX1 or GH4 less of a let down!
--
Norbro - glad you dont think it is a disaster.
The z6 is a bit limited.. but comapred to the video cameras that dont even have FIZ all at once then it starts looking good.
There is even a slow 24-200 in the pipeline which certainly matches the range of a small video camera
ND is the only huge loss but there is 100 iso (not sure about in wide/log setting)
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Ive actually used it quite a lot, or rather Mish my chum has been bcam on it while I swing my FS7, Maybe thats my made journey to it 'obvious' but I got here as a flawed small video camera rather than a flawed large cine camera!
--
I did red bull mower racing
here my FS7 was on my Movi and the z6 on the back of a 400 2.8 (manual focus)
I put it on my movi on my car rig, here Im using AF and the focus motor is doing the zoom
you can see the af in action on my slider
and it is the B cam on my mates cyclo cross (fs7 an Nikon)
--
I did red bull mower racing
here my FS7 was on my Movi and the z6 on the back of a 400 2.8 (manual focus)
I put it on my movi on my car rig, here Im using AF and the focus motor is doing the zoom
you can see the af in action on my slider
and it is the B cam on my mates cyclo cross (fs7 an Nikon)
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I think it is safe - all the metalwork is good. It is a right mission to develop because you need a driver opertor and model and then it is a ***** to run and find clear road and have all the eletronics working. Either the radio image transmitter is wonky, the movi settings are wonky, or the remote focus is wonky - but it is getting to a level where one can take it out for money - last mod is to get the movi working from power from the vehicle or some remote v locks rather than black lumps of sh_it that movi give you calling them 'batteries'
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Don't forget about the Nikon F 28-300: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/729950-USA/Nikon_2191_AF_S_NIKKOR_28_300mm_f_3_5_5_6G.html
Not as wide as 24, of course, but if you need a super zoom now it can be had for $600 used
Not as wide as 24, of course, but if you need a super zoom now it can be had for $600 used
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I guess Im gonna buy one 'single use' lense - Im thinking it will be 24-70 (grown up lens but short range) or 24-120 (a bit more toylike) - Im aware of the 28-300 too. There are also some aps-c lenses - ill try the camera in (and getting out) of that mode
There is also a stigma 24-105 whiich might present a cost middle ground between the two nikkors - but it is a Stigma.
Im pretty hung up on 24 - having had 24 since the late 80s. (I also have a Tamron 10-24 horrid lens of some nature for apsC mode)
When I was in zambia we used (for stills) D850 and Tamron trio (14-24, 24-70, 70-200) and those modern Tamrons (Di VC USD G2) were not at all horrid
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I guess this is a bad time to tell you that Panasonic just released a 20-60mm (but again, a moot point since their AF sucks).
What do you have against sigma/tamron? All the 3rd party people have been good since at least the last 10 years. That being said, autofocus is a hang-up. From what I read/see, 3rd party autofocus can be good enough but is never AS GOOD as native lens performance (NorBro? Confirmation?)
Nikon looks like they have a lot of cool lenses to whet your appetite. The 24-200 looks like it's available for preorder, so you shouldn't have to wait long.
The 14-30...interesting, but probably not enough reach for you.
The 16-50 DX lens? If Nikon behaves like Sony, it will automatically switch into crop-mode when you put on a crop lens. No menu digging required. And that lens weighs a damn 1/4 lb!
If I were you, I'd buy a 16-50 for casual use and a 24-200 for when you venture out with purpose.
Or if you want to be more serious about image quality and aperture, go for the 24-70 (which costs more than both those lenses combined).
Lots of good choices - Nikon has released a lot of Z mount lenses while my back was turned
What do you have against sigma/tamron? All the 3rd party people have been good since at least the last 10 years. That being said, autofocus is a hang-up. From what I read/see, 3rd party autofocus can be good enough but is never AS GOOD as native lens performance (NorBro? Confirmation?)
Nikon looks like they have a lot of cool lenses to whet your appetite. The 24-200 looks like it's available for preorder, so you shouldn't have to wait long.
The 14-30...interesting, but probably not enough reach for you.
The 16-50 DX lens? If Nikon behaves like Sony, it will automatically switch into crop-mode when you put on a crop lens. No menu digging required. And that lens weighs a damn 1/4 lb!
If I were you, I'd buy a 16-50 for casual use and a 24-200 for when you venture out with purpose.
Or if you want to be more serious about image quality and aperture, go for the 24-70 (which costs more than both those lenses combined).
Lots of good choices - Nikon has released a lot of Z mount lenses while my back was turned
Mitch Gross
Veteran
The Sigma 24-105 is a pretty nice lens.
cyvideo
Veteran
I would have to disagree with the "never AS GOOD" as a native lens comment. The latest Tamrons seem to be in AF performing just as well as the Sony FE glass on the A series cameras. Every bit as well. In addition to the AF all the lens correction functions such as vignetting, fall off, distortion and CA correction are working 100% in video. I can really find very little difference in performance between my Tamron and Sony lenses. The main differences are size, weight, swapped position on focus and zoom rings and of course a big difference in price. The size and weight make them a much more friendly lenses to work with. They also have a much shorter lens extension when fully zoomed. I guess the fact that Sony have a 12% interest in Tamron and supply Tamron all the Sony proprietary lens algorithms helps Tamron perform the best on the Sony bodies. The 28-75 focuses beautifully with AF down to about 7" which I often find useful. As Mitch mentions the Sigma 24-105 is for the price a pretty good performer. I've just sold one after a couple of years of use as of it as I am looking to the Sony 24-105 F4.0 but am hanging out to see if the new Tamron that is being released is a 24-105. If that Tamron is a 24-105 that's what I will get. If it is anywhere close to the Tamron 28-75 in performance on Sony bodies I will be very happy.
Chris Young
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlEkUxrg_L0 The distortion mentioned in this clip has been fixed with a software upgrade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoyURLIc5mE
Last edited:
ahalpert
Major Contributor
why did you sell the sigma 24-105, Chris? And is it possible that tamron AF performance on sony is exceptional? i read a lot of reviews for 3rd party lenses for different camera brands and my conclusion is that the native lenses generally are faster and more accurate. and i've heard loads of photographers complain about AF on sigmas
Last edited:
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I guess that my bias is two decades old - as a youngster I blagged life with 80-200 push pulls and sigma 80-200 ( EX, HSM APO as it happens) that failed to talk to the nikon camera on in a reliable manner. THere is nothing like being on a job where the lens is stuck on F22 or wedged open with a matchstick to make you hate a lens.
In my 30s I found just shelling out for a proper new nikkor cost less £per year.
As I mentioned above I did a month in zambia with a D850 and Tamron set. It was most excellent in quite rough conditions.
Im sure todays sigmas and tamron lenses are most excellent and appear to offer a value proposition. Im less convinced by the taiwan (?) nikkors frankly.
In my 30s I found just shelling out for a proper new nikkor cost less £per year.
As I mentioned above I did a month in zambia with a D850 and Tamron set. It was most excellent in quite rough conditions.
Im sure todays sigmas and tamron lenses are most excellent and appear to offer a value proposition. Im less convinced by the taiwan (?) nikkors frankly.