Covid camera!

So the sony thing is out.

Dunno what I think. Its kind of. well I dunno.. style defining - no (significant) telephoto.. but that could force one to be up close which is mainly good.

No headphones (what were they thinking)
Battery door fouls 1/4 in screw
sony baffling wheel control
short battery life

As one o the bloggers said .. the 1/4 screw thing is bad.

Is there an option to get one of those USB phone battery things..

Small light, good looking AF, 100mbs it also kind of a wonderment.. and 3 stop ND - better than a poke in the eye.

Similar to my Nex5n which might have some advantages especially as I custom build a cage for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE7PPWygl2I
 
Yeah I think the SONY ZV-1 is not what you want after we discussed your needs more. It doesn't have the ergonomics or some of the audio features etc. of the proper video cams I think you actually want
 
Had another crazy idea.

JVC! ls 300 and Olympus 12-100mm f/4

plus a fast 25.

.. which almost brings one back to an FS5 and 18-110
 
I was this close | | to recommending the LS300 the other day, but you seemed to be so all over the place that I didn't.

Great camera.
 
that was my guess.

I suppose that you "choose what to lose!"

XF400 - no HFR

Z90 - no wide

Ls300 - no af

panicsonic - no af (ish)

--

To me AF is important assuming you are looking at some piss-poor flip screen in the sun. Id by happy doing my own focus on a big cine kit with a decent monitor :)
 
Wow...all the Sony camcorders bottom out at 29mm on the wide end...that's criminal

The FS5mk2 doesn't have hybrid AF it looks like. Maybe the FX6 would be a good choice but again that's at a $5k and not a $2k price point. And it's not out yet
 
The Panasonic AG-CX10 could be cool: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1538307-REG/panasonic_ag_cx10_4k_camcorder.html

25-600mm equivalent zoom. It has face detect AF which could be useful for situations where you're talking to someone and aren't monitoring image.

My experience with Panasonic AF on GH5 and S1 is that it doesn't do well with tracking quickly, but it can find and hold onto something and readjust as need be. It seems like this new camcorder ups the ante:

"Panasonic hasn't been the king of this field, so I was curious to try it out here, especially since it offers face detection.

I am happy to report that it is very good, in fact. In the default modes, it will shift focus gradually and accurately to match any new subjects. It even did a good job tracking my cat around a room as I was shooting handheld. Surprisingly good. I would trust it for shooting in a variety of scenarios, though I would still be cautious about subjects with extreme differences in distance, because it might take a little longer to register and then move too slowly for your tastes or requirements.

Supposedly the trick Panasonic uses to pull this off is through analysis of color in the image, in addition to contrast. It seems like the company really figured something out to get performance to be very usable for a camcorder, definitely helped by the fact that this is a smaller-sensor camera that generally offers more depth of field.

Face detection also worked very well, tracking a face with ease. I wasn't able to get multiple people involved to do some real tests with tracking multiple faces and see how it responds, but if you are planning on doing an interview or stand-up shot, then the AG-CX10's focusing should be very reliable for you."

Only downside is low-light performance because it's a 1/2.5" sensor. Very small cam though. And had a built-in LED and built-in wifi for livestreaming

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bh...anasonic-ag-cx10-is-the-4k-camcorder-you-want
 
morgan_moore said:
My list is open, varied and wide. Maybe $1500

-Canon XC15 - cheap and I like the posture looking down the chimney - worries.. old AF
-Canon XA 50, 55 - wide lens, I guess DPAF is the best AF (max budget) - probably great
-SOny z90, we like this kind of (having one in the office) personally I dont like the lack of wide lens and dont like the single ring layout at all. Also its overbudget

All of the above cams have ND
Click to expand...

I think the new Sony Z1-V could be a useful very small camera but again limited with it's 24mm equivalent lens albeit f1.8 to f2.8. If it performs anything like its older brother the RX100 IV which it should do with its newer generation 1" BSI sensor and ND it will be value for money as it is pretty aggressively priced. I was more than surprised at what I could get out of the RX100 IV. Below are a couple of links to the first test I did with one of those in low light. One with NR and one without.

RX100 Low light
Share link: https://dai.ly/k2MRkzzoxmBFgHw5a5M

Rx100 Low Light + Neat Video
Share link: https://dai.ly/k3HdXFodBIwl5hw5a8K

I know it's in a different price bracket but I find for small and compact and with a punch well above its weight the Z90 you mentioned with its 12 x optical zoom and NDs and10-bit 422 Long GOP XAVC in HD pretty hard to beat. I've overcome the Z90's lack of wide end, approx 25mm by using a Sony 0.8 VCL-HG0872 Wide Lens Adapter. That is the full zoom through HD WA adapter made for the original Sony HVR-Z1. On the Z90 it brings the wide end down to just on 20mm. Because of the rear lens flange on the adapter you just need a couple of step up rings to get from 62 to 72mm. There is a VCL-HG0872 on eBay today UK bidding at £21.99. Great value. They were about £300 quid new. eBay item number: 193488795746

Sony WA 01.jpgSony WA 02.jpgSony WA 03.jpg

Or if I need much wider with almost zero distortion I'm using an 85mm Century Optics / Tinsley 0.6 WA converter from my ENG lenses. This is much lighter than the Sony WA above, much lighter in fact. Being a converter this only allows 80% zoom through. This gives me pin sharp 9.5 x zoom on the Z90 which goes from about 15.2mm to 144mm. With a FF equivalent of 15mm and the Z90's Active stabilization, lens and body, it is a very smooth camera to shoot with.

IMG_20200602_191001.jpgIMG_20200602_191945.jpgIMG_20200602_191958.jpg

Chris Young
 
Chris. Thank you for your report on the Z90.

As Ive said we have a z90 in the office and I have some (positive) experience with it. The WAA sounds like a superb accessory which would turn it into the 'best small camcorder'.

Ive been flirting with a used canon XF400

There is something wrong with that in that it is still a complete toy.

-the rear EVF is not very viable on a sunny day being too small (I approve of the rear evf on the C200 with big eyecup)
-the lens wheel is not assignable to iris.. this seems dumb considering that one is using AF and the toggle to zoom leaving the only viable control interface unused.

This camcorder and the z90 still seem to be toys.

My thinking is now that the nikon z50 + adapter + 16-80 2.8 lens is the thing.

This is an AF s35 'dslr' with nikon controls that I am most familiar with.
Its downer is the lack of mic input.

I have many nikon lenses so could flip this camera between 'pocketable' rng camera and a b-cam to my fs7

Thoughts?
 
Z50 w/16-80 sounds like a badass combo.

Audio - you could use a Zoom F6 mounted below camera for XLR inputs feeding 3.5mm to camera? F6 is awesome and tiny. Or just rode videomic in hotshoe.

Supposedly the 16-80 has noisy AF. And strong barrel distortion at 16mm - https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/16-80mm.htm

But it might still be the best option
 
But for best video IQ in an APS-C body I would check out Fuji X-T4 and fuji 16-80 f/4

For best video AF in any camera ever, I would check out Sony a6600 with sony 16-55 f/2.8
 
Hi

As well as getting the 16-80 I also already have (for tripod use) the af vr 70-200 and a heap of manual nikkor

using a nikon kind of works for me better than fuji.. even if is has better iq because im all over my D3, D600 and glass

Ive not used fuji but my gh4 is fairly horrid for using the controls in every possible way.

Im glad you think the nikon is not a terrible idea.

I have a sound devices 702 and various lavs/shotguns - it has an output that might be able to feed the nikon or I could use my rode (or nothing for scratch) and do dual sound if chatting.
having lavs in bag not attached to the camera is quite tidy.
 
Right well the manual nikkor glass can happily adapt to any camera. But if you already know and like nikon and have their 70-200 then it sounds like a good idea.

The main thing with the fuji is internal codecs and bitrates - I'm not sure of all the options but I think it goes up to 400mbps all-I 10-bit 4:2:0 in 4k 60p internally. I'm not sure what the z50 does but honestly it's probably fine even if its 8-bit 4:2:0.

Looking into it...seems like no log profile on the z50, just an 8-bit 'flat' profile. So I'm thinking you won't get as much dynamic range as the fuji or the sony (though sony is also limited to 8-bit). (I believe the nikon z6/z7 only record log when outputting to an external recorder.) Not necessarily a dealbreaker but something to be aware of

Here's fuji f-log in action: https://www.google.com/search?q=fuj...sung-gj-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#

I haven't used fuji and cant comment on the controls, although I think photogs generally like their bodies

Dual system sound always works for me as long as you have a pain-free syncing workflow
 
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A wireless lav and Senn G3 will go straight into a z6 so I expect it will into a Z50. Using the AF on Fmount lenses will ruin any on camera sound such as a Rode into the hotshoe. Just way too much lens motor noise. I expect you probably knew that but just in case.
 
But for a walk around like you were saying you were using the EX1 for do you want to go down the road with interchangeable glass and Sound Devices 702's and other bits and pieces to lug around?

The A6600 with the with the 16-55 is great value and produces great images. A good cam but it suffers a bit with bit jello on quick movement with rolling shutter. Also you are back to 24mm FF equivalent on the wide end. The Z90 with the handle / XLR block stripped off is small light and low profile and can be carried in a small shoulder case all day. It's about 800 grams with the handle / XLR taken of. With the addition of the Sony VCL-HG0872 0.8 WA giving you that 20mm FF equivalent with a 12 x zoom and up to 24 x with clear image in HD or 18 x in 4K and I find most lens length requirements are covered. As regards focusing it has the same Hybrid Phase / Contrast AF capabilities of the current A series cams plus touch screen focus. In many cases it pulls focus faster than my A7III which isn't exactly a slouch in AF performance. To top it off I like the SDI output, no time limit recording, dual card recording, 422 10-bit codec and with the latest firmware live streaming straight from the camera with no additional hardware. Something I have now used half a dozen times in the last few weeks thanks to the lock downs. The Z90 stands up pretty well. As you can see I'm a convert. BTW works well as a second cam to my FS7. This following review is long and what needs to be said is covered in the first few minutes but it is a pretty fair summation of the camera's pluses and minuses.

Chris Young

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkrKxX3dSxo
 
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cyvideo said:
But for a walk around like you were saying you were using the EX1 for do you want to go down the road with interchangeable glass and Sound Devices 702's and other bits and pieces to lug around?

The A6600 with the with the 16-55 is great value and produces great images. A good cam but it suffers a bit with bit jello on quick movement with rolling shutter. Also you are back to 24mm FF equivalent on the wide end. The Z90 with the handle / XLR block stripped off is small light and low profile and can be carried in a small shoulder case all day. It's about 800 grams with the handle / XLR taken of. With the addition of the Sony VCL-HG0872 0.8 WA giving you that 20mm FF equivalent with a 12 x zoom and up to 24 x with clear image in HD or 18 x in 4K and I find most lens length requirements are covered. As regards focusing it has the same Hybrid Phase / Contrast AF capabilities of the current A series cams plus touch screen focus. In many cases it pulls focus faster than my A7III which isn't exactly a slouch in AF performance. To top it off I like the SDI output, no time limit recording, dual card recording, 422 10-bit codec and with the latest firmware live streaming straight from the camera with no additional hardware. Something I have now used half a dozen times in the last few weeks thanks to the lock downs. The Z90 stands up pretty well. As you can see I'm a convert. BTW works well as a second cam to my FS7. This following review is long and what needs to be said is covered in the first few minutes but it is a pretty fair summation of the camera's pluses and minuses.

Chris Young

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkrKxX3dSxo
Click to expand...

Clearly the answer is to have a bunch of cameras and to take the one that will work on the day.

Or the other clear answer is that there is no camera that is both small and designed for professional use each one is hobbled by something. No ND, no sound attachments, no ND, no full size eye cup for the sun, no control of FIZIsoND without a menu dig. Something is wrong on all of them be that small camcorder or 'dslr'.

I do some walks and dont take the ex1 with me (because it is not pockatable) and miss interesting covid scenes.

Or I go on a 'camera mission' and do take it with me and those moments dont happen (!), the ex1 doesnt blend life and work.

The z50 with a single lens could be on me all the time and while on a 'camera mission' I could take z50+sound kit and/or tele lens or ex1 (or fs7) !

A z90 (or canon) could probably be on me all the time too.. but is right on the margin of being practical for that.

The nikon also has (unlike the camcorders) a £50 cage gving proper 1/4 thread mounts top side and bottom which could handle solid atachment of lavs or other bits.

I think a lot revolves around attitude. The camcorder have a huge thing in the 300mm+ (FFequiv) lenses and are great for 'stealing' pictures from across the road or suchlike. The (S35) 16-80 on the nikon is a great range when you are not stealing but hanging round with someone.

So does my little film need to steal images..? on principal I think a better humanity will be brought to the film by asking not stealing.

The other thing going at the moment (trouble in america) would probably be better served by that 300mm+ FOV camcorder feel.
 
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