Could these problems exist?

Snapper123

Well-known member
Hey guys, I've had the T2i for a few months, and I keep getting the same problems. Before I mention any of these issues, keep in mind that I am not a amatuer who keeps the camera on auto, I rely very heavily on very specific apertures, shutter speeds, and ISO's for the types of videography I do. In extreme videography, if any of these specific settings are 'off center', even by stops, the shot/video will not look professional (too much noise, under exposure, glitches, ect ect).

1. After doing tests in my very, very well lit bedroom, I've concluded that for the ISO to be on 100 (the most important factor in making videos on the T2i), the aperture has to be 1.8 (almost the lowest they make in lenses), and the shutter has to be on 20. Since video mode has the shutter speed pretty much locked (either for camera specifics or general aesthetic reasons) at places between 30 and 60, you can see where natural indoor video shots using a 100 ISO is not possible. It usually has to be on 400 ISO, just to replicate the surrounding light.

For this problem, I propose that my camera's sensor is not recognizing alot of the light that the lens is letting in. When I look through the viewfinder, it's obvious that the lens is letting the 100% natural room's light in, there's nothing wrong with the lens. To replicate this crystal clear natural light image I see in the viewfinder, I know that I would have to have a shutter of 0, an aperture of 0, and a ISO of 0. At least, that's how digital camera sensors were in 1985....

Now, since ISO starts at 100, that means the image will be a good step or two lighter than naturally. Since the shutter has to be on 30 for video, that means the image will now be much darker than the natural light with keeping in mind the 100ISO addition. Finally, with the Aperture being 1.8, this would again darken the lens' light by a full stop or two. Overall, this means that if you have a shutter of 30 with a 1.8 lens, you'll most likely have to raise the ISO to 400 to even just replicate (not talking about enhancing, that's ISO 800-1600) the surrounding light.

But with that whole thoery in mind, do modern camera's really work like this? Hasn't camera sensor technology evolved to the point where these cameras generally accept light more than say, a digital camera from 1990? Or has the camera's sensor light technology remained exactly the same (in favor of daylight shots vs. indoor shots) so that people will buy $10,000 1.0 aperture lenses? I'm really wondering because either there's a problem with my specific camera, or there's a problem with the camera industry.

To add to that though, it's not that I have anything against using ISO's, the fact that ISO was invented is amazing, but it's the fact that at least on my specific camera, 200 ISO is the highest I can (in video mode) go before I get glitches in my footage (unprofessional pixelation, noise, lines, general bad quality), so that (too much noise) may even be the root of why I am dissapointed in my camera. It may not be that my sensor is not letting in light, it may just be that it creates too much noise for the specific ISO levels at hand, more-so than a normal T2i. ISO is not useful in any way for me unless it produces good, professional results. So far, after doing tests, I've concluded that in most indoor situations, I would have to have a 1.0 lens just make a crystal clear indoor 'replicate the light' video. Out of the question! It's bogus!

P.S. I don't mean Candlelight videography, I mean that in an extremely bright room, you'd have to have a 1.0 lens just to keep the ISO on 100, and not 400. That's exactly how it is on my camera. If you think "there's no way! I'm getting extremely bright videos on my camera at ISO 100!" please tell me!!!
 
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I don't understand why you are basing the theory of a perfect non-existent thing (0 ISO, 0 Aperture, 0 Shutter) to the ambient area. You'd have to measure it somehow, and by all means using your brain and your eyes are going to yield biased results.

So you're saying? when you look through the viewfinder that is how bright things should be? Well that' not true[for our eyes, not the lens] because the 550D/t2i has a rubbishly dark brown plastic mirror for the viewfinder. But in theory and for the lens yes... but how would you measure that without going into abstract mathematics? Your brain has automatic ISO/Shutter adjustment, and your eyes have an aperture! Too much uncertainty principle going on there!

But I can almost assure you if you take a still photo (on any automatic setting on the camera) it will be far sharper and more colourful and vivid to what you could distinguish with your real eyes.

And what test are you doing to want to shoot ISO100 F1.8 1/20?! Are you doing studio work with continuous lights on products? Surely for video ISO200 F1.8 1/40 would be fine, I can't tell the difference between ISO100/200 noise-wise at all in video mode. I think your camera is duff. And to be honest I can't tell a difference between noise levels at ISO100 F1.8 1/20 still and a ISO400 F1.8 1/80 still without zooming in 100% and straining myself...

Also today's ISO 200 is cleaner and less noisy than the very first generation of digital cameras at ISO 200 back in 2000 (never mind 1985...) There's also more resolution and colour depth and dynamic range too.

And I find things at F1.8 and 1/50 at 25fps and ISO100 too bright at times, especially in sunny exteriors. Yeah would be great to have ISO 50 and 25 but I'll just use NDs.

Best if you went in the shops to compare if your 550D/T2i is fauty. I sent mine back because it developed extra vertical banding and fixed noise patterns.
 
Snapper,

I don't know what else people can tell you. I truly don't know what your expectations are or how they got set, but they are WAY off the mark. As is your understanding of how aperture, ISO, and shutter speed are related based on your comments.

I've been in this game for nearly 30 years. And I can tell you without question, that the T2i, at it's price has never been rivaled by any camera I am aware of. NONE. Film or digital.

Refer to the following chart:

http://www.panavision.co.nz/main/kbase/reference/tbleExposure.asp

Hopefully, you recognize the name at the top of that chart and will understand that this is an ABSOLUTELY professional chart.

Now look at the following chart:

http://www.lowel.com/dp/dp_b.html#info

That is a photometrics chart for a 1000 watt open faced movie light that is popular with indie filmmakers. If you notice, if you put the light into flood mode, which you'd do if you were trying to light a room, at 10ft it is giving 88FC. That is for a 1000 watt light. A common 60w bulb like someone might havei in their house is going to give maybe 5 FC at the same distance. Let's be generous and say you turn on a few lamps in your room. So maybe room ambient is 20FC. Refer back to that first chart and look at what ISO 100 needs in terms of a F-Stop in light of 20FC.

The fact is, you'd need nearly another full stop of light beyond what you have on your current lens to make a proper exposure in what most people would consider a decently lit room. That chart is based on a 1/50th exposure just like your T2i. There is a reason that film cameras are loaded with ISO 500 speed film indoors. And light levels on indoor sets are lit to about 50-75FC. The common lighting levels in broadcast TV are closer to 100-150FC so that cameras can be moved about a bit without having to pull focus.

TV lights are generally 12-20ft from the talent. Go back and look at that Lowel chart and see what kind of lights you need to light people from 20ft to 150FC.

There is a reason those versed in cinematography are CONSTANTLY harping on newer filmmakers to light, light, light. You CANNOT shoot a good movie in the dark. Night scenes on most movies are brighter than sunset. All that "darkness" happens in post.
 
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After doing tests in my very, very well lit bedroom, I've concluded that for the ISO to be on 100 (the most important factor in making videos on the T2i), the aperture has to be 1.8

The most important factor in making videos on any camera is content, if you get hooked up in trying to keep the camera at 100 ISO then you're missing the point of film making.

However that's my opinion.
 
The most important factor in making videos on any camera is content, if you get hooked up in trying to keep the camera at 100 ISO then you're missing the point of film making.

However that's my opinion.

I mean, I understand he want's clean footage. We all do. But you're not going to get there without light. And a lot of it. If I am shooting at ISO 100 indoors, I am setting light levels that are not going to be comfortable for the actors. When you do that, you don't get good performances. It's HARD to pretend you're doing a sultry evening scene when it's lit like like noon daylight. You WANT that room to be lit a bit dark if you can, which means moving that ISO dial or loading different film.
 
I mean, I understand he want's clean footage. We all do. But you're not going to get there without light. And a lot of it. If I am shooting at ISO 100 indoors, I am setting light levels that are not going to be comfortable for the actors. When you do that, you don't get good performances. It's HARD to pretend you're doing a sultry evening scene when it's lit like like noon daylight. You WANT that room to be lit a bit dark if you can, which means moving that ISO dial or loading different film.

+1

You have to have realistic expectations of any camera, even with the fastest fstop lens you can buy you still have to light for the iso of the camera/film stock.
 
I mean, I understand he want's clean footage. We all do. But you're not going to get there without light. And a lot of it. If I am shooting at ISO 100 indoors, I am setting light levels that are not going to be comfortable for the actors. When you do that, you don't get good performances. It's HARD to pretend you're doing a sultry evening scene when it's lit like like noon daylight. You WANT that room to be lit a bit dark if you can, which means moving that ISO dial or loading different film.

I agree.

It's worth remembering that unless it's really excessive noise, regular views won't notice or care anyway.
 
Uuuuugggg! This is the problem with new film makers. They have not come up through the world of film. They don't fully grasp the concept of lighting. They don't have or understand how to use a light meter. Lastly, they want one, inexpensive, camera to solve all their problems.

Slow down, back up, study Adam's grey scales, learn the theory and practice of light and then apply it to your craft.
 
also agreeing with everyones point....i'd also say to just double check your camera against another new t2i JUST to be sure somethings not up. But based on your expectations...i think u are being pretty unrealistic.
 
How many threads you are going to make? It has already been clearly stated that their is something wrong with your camera.

Noise is not introduced AT ALL until 1600 ISO, anything less than that the image is PERFECT. So your camera is faulty, period END OF STORY

So to finally piggy back on the vets here, you need light and a lot of it.
 
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How many threads you are going to make? It has already been clearly stated that their is something wrong with your camera.

Noise is not introduced AT ALL until 1600 ISO, anything less than that the image is PERFECT. So your camera is faulty, period END OF STORY
.

What are you talking about? The camera introduces macrobolocking at even 100ISO in video mode. By 800 it's muddy garbage.

To the OP: Why are you trying to shoot at 100ISO? It looks worse than 320 and 640.
 
There is a reason those versed in cinematography are CONSTANTLY harping on newer filmmakers to light, light, light. You CANNOT shoot a good movie in the dark. Night scenes on most movies are brighter than sunset. All that "darkness" happens in post.

I don't know what part of this statement people don't understand. Professional productions always bring to the set tons of light. There is a recurring misconception that a fast lens alone will bring magic to a camera. All the banding complains with low light is exactly because of that, shooting in unacceptable low light. Try shooting film in bad low light and watch the results. Invest in a lighting kit and the dark lit scenes will look wonderful.
 
What are you talking about? The camera introduces macrobolocking at even 100ISO in video mode. By 800 it's muddy garbage.

To the OP: Why are you trying to shoot at 100ISO? It looks worse than 320 and 640.

What are you talking about? The op clearly stated he has a T2i which does not shoot in those iso modes. Second iso 100 is the lowest setting which is perfectly clean, and it maintains that quality all the way until 800. I use my camera everyday so I have no idea what you are talking about....
 
What are you talking about? The op clearly stated he has a T2i which does not shoot in those iso modes. Second iso 100 is the lowest setting which is perfectly clean, and it maintains that quality all the way until 800. I use my camera everyday so I have no idea what you are talking about....

Please show me video at 100ISO that does not exhibit OBVIOUS noise, banding, macroblocking.
 
Please show me video at 100ISO that does not exhibit OBVIOUS noise, banding, macroblocking.

I think you are in the wrong forum as this is something that happens with the Gh1. You know for a "professional" which you claim to be you sure do act far from it.


No point in arguing with someone who sees things the way they want too

peace my brother, much blessings
 
I think you are in the wrong forum as this is something that happens with the Gh1. You know for a "professional" which you claim to be you sure do act far from it.


No point in arguing with someone who sees things the way they want too

peace my brother, much blessings

The man's a pro, and knows what he is talking about. Get off the camera high horse.
 
I think you are in the wrong forum as this is something that happens with the Gh1.

Where is the sample of 100ISO material with no noise, etc? If you're going to tell someone to use something, show examples (especially of your own work, which I don't think we've seen yet) proving that it's the best method to capture an image.

I can point you to plenty of footage showing why I recommend using higher ISOs, even in daylit situations.

I did forget that the T2i doesn't have the rest of the steps (ISOs), even still I wouldn't recommend shooting that low for any situation. Especially broad daylight.
 
The man's a pro, and knows what he is talking about. Get off the camera high horse.

Well the pro needs some polishing because the t2i does not have the iso modes he thought it does. Second what do you mean get off of the high horse? Just because someone has material or is considered successful does not mean they can never be wrong just like the case in point.


Finally I never said that recording at higher iso was better or worst , all I stated that on my camera from iso 100-800 there is no visible noise what so ever. I do not need to post footage to show that, it is something that is the truth as many other people can verify.


Finally people need to stop thinking Kholi here is untouchable , as I just proved this "pro" wrong.

This back and forth will never stop until someone gets banned or moderated so this is my final thing I have to say on this subject. If recording at higer iso during the day time is better than a lower one that's great, I would like to know why.


But also just because someone might be considered the "professor" does not mean they cannot be correct by the "student" which one day can surpass everything done before him......
 
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