Cost of creating concepts for an agency - need advice.

James Carpenter

James Carpenter

Well-known member
I am going to be working for an agency to create a 1 minute TV ad for a client. I have quoted them for the project and have been chosen to go forward with the work.

The agency is also asking me to put together three concepts for them to share with their client. Should I be charging the agency for my time creating said concepts given that the approval of one of them will dictate the final work? i.e. without the concepts there wouldn't be a paying gig for me.

Not sure how to proceed.

Any thoughts?

Cheers!
 
It all always comes down to this; would you rather have the work or do you really need the extra money for your time? (Hopefully both, right?)

If you don't need the extra money and would rather not risk losing the client or spoiling the relationship then you shouldn't charge them extra.

If you really can't handle the extra work and are doing okay financially and the client and/or project will not make or break you then you could discuss it with them.

I always look at the big picture and decide if going the extra mile is worth it (i.e. more work in the future, good client to have, good reference, etc).
 
In situations like this it's "Okay, the first one is on me…." and then very politely but firmly letting them know that there will be a (negotiable?) fee thereafter.
 
Rhetorical question - How did you know how to quote the project without knowing the concept?

At this point, it seems they want the concepts for free. The deal has been negotiated and now they slipped in an additional requirement. What does your contract/quote say about extra services? Since they are asking for something you didn't expect, what else will be coming along 'to get the job'? I guess it depends on how well you know the agency and client to determine if you feel it is worth providing concepts for free and then risking what else they will request as the project develops.
 
And then the question becomes this - "what if you quote a fee and they get peeved at being charged?"

And the answer is that you have to discuss it with them. Your time is valuable and they shouldn't expect to be getting it for nothing.

PS. IMO, this is different than making a sales pitch where the winning bid gets the reward and the rest get nada.

PPS. It's also possible to negotiate something upfront that would be offset by the greater compensation if you do get the order.
 
I don't see how you can quote something without knowing what the concept is, so now it's necessary to provide concepts constrained by the quote. The development of those concepts may or may not be included in your figure but sounds like they've been given an all-in price and would be put off by a change after the fact.
 
Will they only hire you on if you bring an idea forward they like? Are they soliciting pitches and pricing from other parties?

I've spent days, hours, meeting with clients, back and forth, pitching ,etc. quoting etc.. only to have them turn around and give a myriad of reasons why they won't proceed. i.e. cost, timing, budget, decided to go with someone else,. etc..

As a DP/camera operator this does seem like a lot of time put in to not get the work... but on the other hand, as an "agency" providing ideas and pitches is what you will do day in and day out leaving it up to the client and possibly their client to decide if 1) they like it and 2) if they want to go ahead and 3) if you are the person/company who can actually deliver it.

I'm in the former category so this stuff use to bother me to no end until I realized that I did not want to become an agency continually going through the efforts of pitching ideas, etc.. it's a lot of work to get what felt like 1 in 100 chance of getting the job. I just decided it wasn't for me.

You'll have to do the same eventually and decide what you want/like to do.
 
starcentral said:
... I'm in the former category so this stuff use to bother me to no end until I realized that I did not want to become an agency continually going through the efforts of pitching ideas, etc.. it's a lot of work to get what felt like 1 in 100 chance of getting the job. I just decided it wasn't for me....
Click to expand...
That's right. And the difference is that copywriters at the agency are usually on some form of a guaranteed salary, so they don't have to fret about the individual sales. They may get bonuses if an idea is converted into an order but they do get some form of a check every two weeks. And that's where the relationship is tested - are you an innie or an outie?
 
Don't know how it works currently, but on any regional or national spot I've done, the agency "creatives" come up with the concept(s) to pitch the client. We bid on the concept and produced the spot based on their (story)boards. The agency's fee should include the concept creation or add your additional fee to their budget markup.

Also, what DLD said: communication at this stage can save everyone some grief.

Best,
Ken
 
Concepts, especially good ones, are valuable. Sometimes VERY valuable. They're also hard to protect and copyright. Sounds to me like you're getting used for free labor.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it...

Whether you accept or not depends on how respected you are and what reputation you have. How much you need the work, etc. If you have a limited portfolio and reputation, need the job, etc. do it for free. It's probably the only way you'll get it, otherwise they'll move on to someone willing to make that compromise.

If you are in position of power, don't *need* the job, and you have a reputation for great concepts and work, then what is truly fair is to charge a fee for the concepts, whether they go with you or not.

But this industry isn't fair, and life isn't fair. If people can get away with something, they will, and we all do what we have to do.

Starcentral said it well, and I've shared with experience too many times. When work is slow, you have to. If you can get yourself positioned well though, it's ideal to not go down that road. I've had my time jerked around too many times by too many people who spend dozens of hours of my time, steal my concepts, then use the concepts with the lowest bidder. No thanks.

But, from what I've seen it's only the top talent that can get away with playing hardball. Just like the hot women can get away with more. Are your concepts and talent hot enough that people will pay for them sight unseen? Is that your proven track record and reputation?

We do what we have to do, and this industry is notorious for paying your dues. It's hard for everyone, but easier for the top talent. Only you know your situation, and what sort of weight you can swing with the client. Your arrangement doesn't sound fair. But that doesn't mean it's not what is best for you.
 
If the agency ask photographer to do work for them, and then add two more jobs, they know they have to pay. If they call in a plumber, they have to pay. If they try to get free stuff, they are taking advantage of gullibility and want you for your price, not quality or ideas.

I like the idea of the quote of free first concept - and on rejection or more content, a price to reflect the work involved. Maybe you could offer them a price for two alternative concepts, with a price for further ones - or just a price for 3? Sure - they might say no, but they indicates what they really thought of your work - it was cheap.
 
Thanks for all the advice!
MUCH APPRECIATED!!

As it turns out the agency sent me an email this morning asking me to bill them for the concept creation, so it's all good.
 
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