Corrado Part II
- Thread starter taormina
- Start date
Dees Squeeze
New member
Wow. Llke so many others, I'm astounded at the clarity, depth and relevance of what you are doing / have done. I'm only to P.8 on Corrado 1, and I have learned so blank much! I've had some success as a writer for film and TV, and now that I am heading into self-production, I anticipate spending day after day reading the road map of your journey... to save me from the dead ends and "here there be monsters" crossroads. If we're ever in the same town at the same time, I owe you a McAllan 15, double. Great, great stuff! I joined the forum solely for this blog, although the surfing I have done here in the last little while tells me that this is going to be my home...
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Welcome to the forum Dees!
Yep, this is a cool place to hang and learn : )
Yep, this is a cool place to hang and learn : )
capitalP
Veteran
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Ah Capital P...you blew it...
All you had to do was offer him a contract and some name actors and he would have *fronted* you the fee...
Haven't you learned *anything*?
: )
All you had to do was offer him a contract and some name actors and he would have *fronted* you the fee...
Haven't you learned *anything*?
: )
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Martay
Veteran
Here's where most filmmakers should start to manage their expectations. In both areas, distribution and festivals.
Here's the truth.
1. Most truly Independent Feature Films will not see distribution, much less $$ from distribution...Period.
2. Most truly Independent Feature Films will not be screened, much less win awards at Sundance, Cannes, Toronto, Berlin, Venice, hell Tribeca, Los Angeles, Telluride, etc. film festivals...Period.
That's just the truth.
However, I am still in the camp of those who say to go out and do it. But do it smart. And I am always advocating one learn as much as they can take learning before they are moved to make their own movie. And yes, that includes shorts as well as crewing or acting in other peoples movies as well. I crewed when I could and auditioned for the supporting roles (less competition) in any movie I could in order to learn before I started making movies.
Then I made shorts and then a feature. Festivals (none of the biggies) and distribution (still haven't earned a dime on my first feature that has sold in man territories) followed.
This year I bucked both of the statements I made above, and bucked them completely (well except the big festivals but one of my movies won several festivals)...but the distribution part was completely bucked.
I don't know if I'll be able to leverage it in the same manner that others have been able to do, but I know I'll be making more movies as a result.
So, my expectations have swung toward completely realistic and I was able to stick the landings with my movies this year (after lots of hard work, for those who remember me posting my thread many moons ago here about my movie that was recently released).
I will say that I have been thrilled with the successes that Adam, Faith, Matt, Todd and others have been finding here as well. It's why I keep coming despite the relative dearth of interest relatively speaking in the movies I've been doing
So, I'm very happy to see this thread back in high gear and generating the discussion (albeit with a few moments of near degeneration) it has.
Stay on board Adam, you certainly had been missed on the board and everyone coming to the party in the past few days is proof of that. I'd have been in the mix earlier but my internet has been spotty and I can't justify typing so much into my iPod where I've been following the thread thoroughly.
Good luck on your new projects,
Martin
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Martin, maybe I'm just slow in the head, but could you make a little clearer what you meant with these points? Colloquialisms like "bucked" and "stick the landings" can be a bit ambiguous at times...
To offer a different perspective...
Those are two ways to get paid to make movies, but I'd argue both of the paths you mention are the exception rather than the rule.
From my POV, there are two major ways to get paid directing gigs:
1. Build up a resume as someone who has a great eye and great style. This is probably the most common way - look at all the successful directors who started out shooting commercials or music videos, or were DPs on successful, distinctive movies, or were television directors who got a shot at a feature.
2. Write a script that someone wants to make, and have your condition for them buying it be that you get to direct it. Again, tons of directors started out writing screenplays for successful movies.
True, once in awhile someone will break through with an indie and make the move to studio movies. But it's damned rare. And the problem there is that you spend so much time worrying about raising the money and getting distribution instead of worrying about creating work that's special enough to get attention on its merits.
taormina
Hates to Rent
I think the examples you're mentioning are already paid positions, which defeats the purpose of what I'm trying explain....how to get people into paying director gigs quicker. These people that are "shooting commercials, music videos, or DPs on successful, distinctive movies" are probably already being compensated, presumably. Tough to build a 'resume' of any length or quality where one is unpaid.
Show me most any successful working director today and I'll show you someone who's first feature was a commercial success.
Jeff, you're saying this as a writer.....right? Certainly you are aware of how difficult it is to even get a script read, no matter how great it is, much less have the leverage to insist you direct it. I am flooded with scripts....so many that I stopped reading them - I can only imagine how many scripts you get.
What I am trying to say here, and it's specifically directed at DVXusers is this:
There are already tons of people on this board who have a "great style" and a "great eye" and do lots with very little. There are good writers here too, people who will spend a year polishing a script. Yet few of these people have made the jump to anything remotely commercial and my sense is that paying gigs are elusive.
I think the prime reason for that is that most of these filmmakers totally ignore the business end of the....business. And it is a business after all.
I don't think you CAN send too much time worrying about distribution! As I said in my previous posts, if you have distribution, you almost don't need to worry about anything else.....but making your movie great.
Filmmaking is not just about shots, dialog, lighting, and resolution. It's about budgets, distribution, bonds, and bank financing.
Total purity of the filmmaking experience occurs only on the two polar ends of the filmmaking spectrum....the only people that get to be totally free of the business of filmmaking are either the ones who, a) are doing it for the art, and with almost no budget, and b) are up in the ether where they have total creative and stylistic control and make non-commercial pictures without regard to return (See Woody Allen).
Yes, I'm talking about working paid positions to work your way up to get your shot directing. But isn't that better than not being paid (or going into debt) to work your way up to directing? And if the key word is "quicker," I'm not sure either path is quicker. Is it really quick to try to raise the money and shoot your own movie when you've got a day job that has nothing to do with building up your resume? I don't exactly see that as an efficient path.
Neither path is guaranteed. But at least in one, you're building the skills you need to do a good job when you get in the director's chair.
It's tough to get a script read. But an honestly great script is a rare thing, and opens doors. I have lots of friends that are working writers. All of them managed to get their scripts read and get hired. No path is easy - but saying it's harder to get a script read than it is to raise the money and cast it and shoot it and distribute it... I can't agree with that.
I think you're using the word "great" a little generously. There's competent, and there's work that is mind blowing, that you share with your friends, watch or read again... I see a lot of competence, and not as much greatness.
If you have enough talent and people want to work with you, they'll take care of the financial end of it so you can focus on making the product. They're not hiring you to worry about that stuff - they've got producers who get paid to do that so you can direct. If I'm a studio, what do I want the director spending his time on? Going over the budget or working with the actors?
taormina
Hates to Rent
^ agree with most of it.
Last feature (H14) after I got the ball rolling, all I did was write and direct. No producing whatsoever, no producing credits. Had no idea what stuff costed after the budget was done. I like it that way. My next feature is like that as well. But in the beginning, it cannot be so.
Your first thing about paid positions makes sense, but for many people on this forum, it's very difficult to get paid to do anything related to filmmaking even though there is genuine talent there.
Last feature (H14) after I got the ball rolling, all I did was write and direct. No producing whatsoever, no producing credits. Had no idea what stuff costed after the budget was done. I like it that way. My next feature is like that as well. But in the beginning, it cannot be so.
Your first thing about paid positions makes sense, but for many people on this forum, it's very difficult to get paid to do anything related to filmmaking even though there is genuine talent there.
capitalP
Veteran
Speaking of budget talks. A funny story happen when I was at a festival. I met this financier and he granted me a meeting at the festival, during the meeting. he asks me what the budget for my next movie was. I said, $70,000. He laughed at me and said when I have a real budget come back and talk to him.
He broke it down to me, Producers don't take you serious if you approach them with a little budget. They don't think you are a serious filmmaker. That guy said that, for any real Financier to take me serious, I'd have to be talking about budgets in the 1 million plus range.
He wasn't rude at all just real informative. That conversation opened my eye about approaching investors. It is true, people in Hollywood take you as serious as your budget. So I can see why Adam is thinking big budget wise.
That was a wake up call for me.
Now if only I could have another meeting with that same guy.
He broke it down to me, Producers don't take you serious if you approach them with a little budget. They don't think you are a serious filmmaker. That guy said that, for any real Financier to take me serious, I'd have to be talking about budgets in the 1 million plus range.
He wasn't rude at all just real informative. That conversation opened my eye about approaching investors. It is true, people in Hollywood take you as serious as your budget. So I can see why Adam is thinking big budget wise.
That was a wake up call for me.
Now if only I could have another meeting with that same guy.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
See thing is, we're going in circles here. I mean everything is relative to a completely different set of circumstances. Like wileypen, your quote above is a bit like the chicken and the egg... There SIMPLY isn't a single path to doing this right. I mean Adam, your advice is sound - bacause it worked right for you, and it probably seems painfully obvious to you that its the right away and completely bizarre even infuriating why this isn't obvious to more people.
But even your own advice is relevant only to those wanting to pursue your particular kind of career path. 'Slinging back questions like - do you want to make movies or not etc' is completely subjective to the type of movies, the type of career and so forth.
I have a lot of respect for what you've achieved, and well, for what ive achieved and what others here have achieved too, there all relative. However, i think personally that its such a personal experience, - a voyage as we might say, that its almost impossible to dispense this as advice. All the books i read when i first got interested in this meant little - often proving contrary to the actual reality of personal experience.
Telling folks here 'like it is' is probably just damaging because they can't see this through your eyes or with your life/work experience. It would be like me giving matter of fact advice on ich... organising a film festival or working in the way i have. The advice just doesnt go to the right part of the brain hehe, (the experience part)
Plus film investment is such a world of insane financials, that nobodies movie is funded in a straight forward sort of way, deals are complex, byzantine and profitability all somewhat relative... so there is no straight forwad advice. Its no concidence Adam that your unique background in business helped you shift into the film financing/business element easier than most. Thats the part... what was it ? selling boats etc? God knows there the experiences you can't teach hehe (integral to being a producer.... which is integral to being an indie director/producer hybrid.)
Now I know the festival route is also getting shot down a bit here... but the truth is no route is easier than the other... Getting into a big festival is just about as damned likely as getting a good business package together if you don't have a lot of experience in business... selling... investments etc... thats the point. (Though god knows i realise i struggle to articulate them here!)
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Awe Capital P i feel for you because i had that kind of experience starting out, however i was able to go back haha after learning a bit more
Mickey Munday
Well-known member
Jeff just out of curiosity what's been your experience (or any writer you know) when attempting this? Especially if it's a studio buying the script. I've always been under the impression that it's been a shot in the dark, but reading your comments I get the sense you are insinuating that it depends on how much they love the script and if its something they'd risk because they love the scipt that much?
Let's assume it's a script they "love". I won't use great, because great means different things to different people.