Coollights fresnels?
- Thread starter taybo20
- Start date
Michael Kosciesza
Member
I am curious myself about this myself. Please post your experiences with the tungsten cool lights heads.
I'm gonna be picking up a few fluorescents and wondering if I should add a fresnel to the package.
MK
Happy filming!
I'm gonna be picking up a few fluorescents and wondering if I should add a fresnel to the package.
MK
Happy filming!
Aaron De Pry
Active member
I have been looking at those as well.
One of my buddies bought some cheap chinese fresnels (not cool lights) off of ebay. They appear to be of similar construction to the cool lights models. The lights are good and get the job done. The build quality isn't as sturdy as the arri kit that we use for most production work. But then again these lights are significantly cheaper. One area that I noticed as a potential weak point of these lights is the wiring. It appears to be 'cheaper' wiring, that is to say a thinner grade with less insulation. This can be fixed with a little elbow grease if it comes to it. The wiring issue is more of an issue of longevity and not functionality.
Just remember that you get what you pay for.
One of my buddies bought some cheap chinese fresnels (not cool lights) off of ebay. They appear to be of similar construction to the cool lights models. The lights are good and get the job done. The build quality isn't as sturdy as the arri kit that we use for most production work. But then again these lights are significantly cheaper. One area that I noticed as a potential weak point of these lights is the wiring. It appears to be 'cheaper' wiring, that is to say a thinner grade with less insulation. This can be fixed with a little elbow grease if it comes to it. The wiring issue is more of an issue of longevity and not functionality.
Just remember that you get what you pay for.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I have some Bardwell & MCallister (B&M) fresnels, some Moles, and a couple of the Cool Lights (the 150W tungsten and the 150W HMI). And I've used Arris repeatedly. And I had a couple of 6-tube Cool Lights fluos.
Arris are popular in lighting kits, but they are not the workhorses that Moles are. Moles are indestructible, Arris are much more lightweight. And the Cool Lights are low-cost imitators of the Arris. The 150W tungsten I have is cute, doesn't put out a good round beam, it's "okay". It is probably worth what it cost, but it is not worth more than it cost.
The Cool Lights fluos that I had, well, ... they worked. Big, bulky, more of a workshop light than a cine light, not in any way comparable to a Kino -- but a lot less expensive. I gave 'em to David when I moved. They were definitely nothing special. These are not representative of Cool Lights latest fixtures, these were a generation or two ago, and were not the CL-655P portable models, they were a prior generation, probably first-generation. And I understand it that Cool Lights has substantially changed their design and made the newer fixtures much better, but I don't have experience with the newer ones to say so.
The 150W HMI is my favorite fixture that Cool Lights makes (that I've used). It was a great price when it was $399, it puts out a good beam, it's small and lightweight... this isn't really a case of "it's okay for the price", this is a case of "I actually definitely like this light." The 150W HMI doesn't feel like a low-cost compromise, it's just a good product. It's gone up in price a bit since then ($459 now). Is it as solid as a Mole? Definitely not. Is it as solid as an Arri? Eh, feels kind of like an Arri, definitely looks like one, I don't know if it's quite as substantial as an Arri but it's good enough and it does the job quite well.
Arris are popular in lighting kits, but they are not the workhorses that Moles are. Moles are indestructible, Arris are much more lightweight. And the Cool Lights are low-cost imitators of the Arris. The 150W tungsten I have is cute, doesn't put out a good round beam, it's "okay". It is probably worth what it cost, but it is not worth more than it cost.
The Cool Lights fluos that I had, well, ... they worked. Big, bulky, more of a workshop light than a cine light, not in any way comparable to a Kino -- but a lot less expensive. I gave 'em to David when I moved. They were definitely nothing special. These are not representative of Cool Lights latest fixtures, these were a generation or two ago, and were not the CL-655P portable models, they were a prior generation, probably first-generation. And I understand it that Cool Lights has substantially changed their design and made the newer fixtures much better, but I don't have experience with the newer ones to say so.
The 150W HMI is my favorite fixture that Cool Lights makes (that I've used). It was a great price when it was $399, it puts out a good beam, it's small and lightweight... this isn't really a case of "it's okay for the price", this is a case of "I actually definitely like this light." The 150W HMI doesn't feel like a low-cost compromise, it's just a good product. It's gone up in price a bit since then ($459 now). Is it as solid as a Mole? Definitely not. Is it as solid as an Arri? Eh, feels kind of like an Arri, definitely looks like one, I don't know if it's quite as substantial as an Arri but it's good enough and it does the job quite well.
Yep. Cool Lights quality has been going up, the 150W HMI is my most recent fixture and is much better than the priors. But their prices have gone up too; they charge $2100 for a 575 HMI Fresnel, and JieTu offers what appears to be a very comparable unit for $999. I think Cool Lights makes good products, just not the screaming deals that they were a few years ago.
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
Thanks for your comments and reviews Barry. I should add those are all products from 2007/2008 he owns. We've evolved since then. Kind of like the computer I used back in 2008 is a lot different than the one I use today and same for the editing software. I could still use that computer or software but I chose to move on to the latest evolution. The manufacturers involved in those products didn't sit still nor did we--there is a constant flow of improvement and evolution of features as well as new products. And the studio flo mentioned was literally the last of the ones we had left when Barry came to us at the end of 2007. That unit didn't even have barndoors from what I recall and I told him the limitations but he still wanted it.
"Appears" is the operative word. Apples and oranges. I thought this thread was about tungsten fresnels but we can get into HMI / CDM too. We do a lot of education about HMIs and know a lot about what's going on in the market so lets get into this a bit more.
1). No one to my knowledge has bought this $999 fixture on Ebay in question or at least not mentioned they did so here, but I know a lot about it so I can give some info. Its nothing like anything we would do or have done in terms of sophistication for a 575 hot restart unit. Plastic connectors for hot restart? I don't think so. For something with thousands of volts pulsing through during ignition? Military grade is really whats needed for hot restart. Anyway, even if someone did buy it and review it, how would they know how it compares to ours if they didn't have both our version and theirs? You can't say something is comparable till you do an unbiased evaluation of both units in real use and not from website product pages.
2). The $999 unit in question is a "575-only" bare bones and the one we sell is a 575/1200 combo. That means it can drive either a 575w or 1200w head. Arri for example has a 575 only and 575/1200 ballast as well. World of difference in functionality and price and with good reason. It takes a lot more to do hot restart, dual function plus universal input voltage on a high wattage model. Look at the interiors of the two types and you will see a big difference in amount of circuitry. If we felt good about the units similar to the $999 one in question we'd be selling them. In fact back in 2008, some may remember we did have a beta program where we sold some 575w only bare bones functionality type ballasts/heads for between $699 and $999--two or three different models. Most are still running, two were retired from service and refunded because of early failures out of 40 units total. I never offered that unit but it was going to be offered in the $999 range if we did go ahead for the finished / polished product. That would be a comparable unit to the one mentioned on Ebay but even so I think our 575 only ballast was and is better than the one on Ebay. It has a fan, our beta unit had a fan too. The fan was a major point that most people didn't like. We thought the longer cable would help but most still didn't like fans. You don't want a fan? You need a more sophisticated ballast then. Customer expectations drive everything including price. That's why we offer what we offer today. That means the price can go up based on constant feedback about: "it should do this" or "it should have that", etc. What we offer in the HMI range is still 50% of what Arri is charging for the similar 575w fresnel kit or 1200w par kit.
2). Jietu? I love how its being tossed around like a household name. They are only one of about 30 different factories here in China producing similar tungsten or HMI products. We have no ongoing relation to Jietu at all--haven't talked with them since 2007 when we were first offering fresnels. Had them manufacture some tungsten fresnels but they wouldn't do our CDM unit for us so we parted ways after that. They didn't get what I wanted to accomplish at all, wouldn't work with us like we like to work, so we are doing what we do more independently now. There is no evidence at all the units being sold on Ebay come from Jietu other than the seller is using the name perhaps because to him, he thinks its a bigger name than the one where he's getting it from. You can't even see the logo on the fixture. You'll notice how they always show an angle that doesn't show the side of the fresnel like from the top or the back. In fact, I know the ballast in question, its loud as hell because of the fan--louder than our beta units even. The cable can't in fact be very long on that unit because the ignitor is in the ballast but really belongs in the head like we and most do for hot restart fixtures. This would mean the base of the fresnel would be bigger like on our 575w hmi fresnel or Arri's as well. There is no room in the bottom of the normal tungsten fresnel model for an ignitor. Both our beta units and the current model we sell all have the ignitor in the head, where it should be, and thus the cable can be longer. We don't have a noisy fan in our 575/1200 combo unit so that's not an issue anyway--another reason I like our current offering. People will offer what they feel good about warranting and if they are a user of their own equipment they want it to be like what they would want to use.
CDM units (non-hot restart) can have much less sophisticated ignitors in the ballast (and we do that) so the base can be the smaller one like the tungsten models. Thus the difference in size between our CDM units and HMI class ones.
This is Jietu's 575 only ballast by the way:
http://www.jietu.com/chanpin_info.asp?BID=65&sid=134&pid=129
The $999 575 only one in the ebay listing looks nothing like their's:
Or finally our 575/1200 is nothing like either:
Actually if you find a true listing of a Jietu dealer, you will see their price for a 575w HMI is actually about the same as ours or fairly close. Maybe a bit cheaper in some cases but should be cheaper. None of those sellers have warranty service in the USA so USA customers have to send back to China if you have an issue. World of difference in operating a business only in China vs. China and the USA in terms of cost of living / cost of doing business. Someday we'll have service in Europe as well.
3). Wiring. Some of the fresnels do have wiring issues especially the 2007 / 2008 vintage. There may still be some from some sources that do have issues today. We were fairly careful about specifying that from any place we have them made. We see the occasional post on public forums about a wiring issue in a Mole or Arri as well. None are totally perfect. Cool Lights has its own specs for wiring so you can't compare if you haven't seen both. Thus if you have a wiring issue with one bought from somewhere else, it doesn't mean that ours has the same issues. Our wiring has been pretty good so far overall in fact in terms of failure rate. I haven't been living in China now for over 4 years for my health, we do it because we like to keep an eye on whats going on with our production and that it meets spec.
4). Tungsten fresnels. Differences I know about between ours and most others. A common complaint is the yoke won't hold angle well on many of these clones especially if you put a front heavy load on them like a softbox. All the Cool Lights fresnels since early 2009 have had what I call a "yoke clamp" on the side which dramatically increases the hold with even the smallest amount of tightening. We also use a beefier tightening handle on the side of the 150, 300w and 650w than most of the others I've seen. Stand adapter, ours are a metal round type now which is 28mm on the outside (junior female) and 16mm on the inside (baby male). Handle on the back. We have an adjustable handle on the back of our units you can grab hold of to help during setting angle. Color. Of course, ours are always black on the ends, silver in the middle but that's just a cosmetic difference. Also since 2009 our 1000w / 575w fresnel has an improved lens that we custom manufactured, so the beam is much smoother than those that use the commonly available 1000w lens for that size fresnel.
"Appears" is the operative word. Apples and oranges. I thought this thread was about tungsten fresnels but we can get into HMI / CDM too. We do a lot of education about HMIs and know a lot about what's going on in the market so lets get into this a bit more.
1). No one to my knowledge has bought this $999 fixture on Ebay in question or at least not mentioned they did so here, but I know a lot about it so I can give some info. Its nothing like anything we would do or have done in terms of sophistication for a 575 hot restart unit. Plastic connectors for hot restart? I don't think so. For something with thousands of volts pulsing through during ignition? Military grade is really whats needed for hot restart. Anyway, even if someone did buy it and review it, how would they know how it compares to ours if they didn't have both our version and theirs? You can't say something is comparable till you do an unbiased evaluation of both units in real use and not from website product pages.
2). The $999 unit in question is a "575-only" bare bones and the one we sell is a 575/1200 combo. That means it can drive either a 575w or 1200w head. Arri for example has a 575 only and 575/1200 ballast as well. World of difference in functionality and price and with good reason. It takes a lot more to do hot restart, dual function plus universal input voltage on a high wattage model. Look at the interiors of the two types and you will see a big difference in amount of circuitry. If we felt good about the units similar to the $999 one in question we'd be selling them. In fact back in 2008, some may remember we did have a beta program where we sold some 575w only bare bones functionality type ballasts/heads for between $699 and $999--two or three different models. Most are still running, two were retired from service and refunded because of early failures out of 40 units total. I never offered that unit but it was going to be offered in the $999 range if we did go ahead for the finished / polished product. That would be a comparable unit to the one mentioned on Ebay but even so I think our 575 only ballast was and is better than the one on Ebay. It has a fan, our beta unit had a fan too. The fan was a major point that most people didn't like. We thought the longer cable would help but most still didn't like fans. You don't want a fan? You need a more sophisticated ballast then. Customer expectations drive everything including price. That's why we offer what we offer today. That means the price can go up based on constant feedback about: "it should do this" or "it should have that", etc. What we offer in the HMI range is still 50% of what Arri is charging for the similar 575w fresnel kit or 1200w par kit.
2). Jietu? I love how its being tossed around like a household name. They are only one of about 30 different factories here in China producing similar tungsten or HMI products. We have no ongoing relation to Jietu at all--haven't talked with them since 2007 when we were first offering fresnels. Had them manufacture some tungsten fresnels but they wouldn't do our CDM unit for us so we parted ways after that. They didn't get what I wanted to accomplish at all, wouldn't work with us like we like to work, so we are doing what we do more independently now. There is no evidence at all the units being sold on Ebay come from Jietu other than the seller is using the name perhaps because to him, he thinks its a bigger name than the one where he's getting it from. You can't even see the logo on the fixture. You'll notice how they always show an angle that doesn't show the side of the fresnel like from the top or the back. In fact, I know the ballast in question, its loud as hell because of the fan--louder than our beta units even. The cable can't in fact be very long on that unit because the ignitor is in the ballast but really belongs in the head like we and most do for hot restart fixtures. This would mean the base of the fresnel would be bigger like on our 575w hmi fresnel or Arri's as well. There is no room in the bottom of the normal tungsten fresnel model for an ignitor. Both our beta units and the current model we sell all have the ignitor in the head, where it should be, and thus the cable can be longer. We don't have a noisy fan in our 575/1200 combo unit so that's not an issue anyway--another reason I like our current offering. People will offer what they feel good about warranting and if they are a user of their own equipment they want it to be like what they would want to use.
CDM units (non-hot restart) can have much less sophisticated ignitors in the ballast (and we do that) so the base can be the smaller one like the tungsten models. Thus the difference in size between our CDM units and HMI class ones.
This is Jietu's 575 only ballast by the way:
http://www.jietu.com/chanpin_info.asp?BID=65&sid=134&pid=129
The $999 575 only one in the ebay listing looks nothing like their's:
Or finally our 575/1200 is nothing like either:
Actually if you find a true listing of a Jietu dealer, you will see their price for a 575w HMI is actually about the same as ours or fairly close. Maybe a bit cheaper in some cases but should be cheaper. None of those sellers have warranty service in the USA so USA customers have to send back to China if you have an issue. World of difference in operating a business only in China vs. China and the USA in terms of cost of living / cost of doing business. Someday we'll have service in Europe as well.
3). Wiring. Some of the fresnels do have wiring issues especially the 2007 / 2008 vintage. There may still be some from some sources that do have issues today. We were fairly careful about specifying that from any place we have them made. We see the occasional post on public forums about a wiring issue in a Mole or Arri as well. None are totally perfect. Cool Lights has its own specs for wiring so you can't compare if you haven't seen both. Thus if you have a wiring issue with one bought from somewhere else, it doesn't mean that ours has the same issues. Our wiring has been pretty good so far overall in fact in terms of failure rate. I haven't been living in China now for over 4 years for my health, we do it because we like to keep an eye on whats going on with our production and that it meets spec.
4). Tungsten fresnels. Differences I know about between ours and most others. A common complaint is the yoke won't hold angle well on many of these clones especially if you put a front heavy load on them like a softbox. All the Cool Lights fresnels since early 2009 have had what I call a "yoke clamp" on the side which dramatically increases the hold with even the smallest amount of tightening. We also use a beefier tightening handle on the side of the 150, 300w and 650w than most of the others I've seen. Stand adapter, ours are a metal round type now which is 28mm on the outside (junior female) and 16mm on the inside (baby male). Handle on the back. We have an adjustable handle on the back of our units you can grab hold of to help during setting angle. Color. Of course, ours are always black on the ends, silver in the middle but that's just a cosmetic difference. Also since 2009 our 1000w / 575w fresnel has an improved lens that we custom manufactured, so the beam is much smoother than those that use the commonly available 1000w lens for that size fresnel.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
If I didn't make it abundantly clear, let's do so now -- yes, these fixtures I got from Cool Lights were a few years ago, and I believe they have upgraded their product lines substantially since then.
I haven't gotten one of their units since the 150W HMI came out, and I believe I was in on the early "DVXUser special introductory price" on that one. Seems like it should have been more recent than 2007, but hey, maybe it was that long ago... wow.
I haven't seen the JieTu or other brands out there. I only said that the unit in the picture looks like a direct clone of the Arri design, which is very similar to the Cool Lights units that I have (meaning, both look like they're clones of the Arri design). That doesn't mean they're exactly the same, obviously. I do hope folks understand that.
I haven't gotten one of their units since the 150W HMI came out, and I believe I was in on the early "DVXUser special introductory price" on that one. Seems like it should have been more recent than 2007, but hey, maybe it was that long ago... wow.
I haven't seen the JieTu or other brands out there. I only said that the unit in the picture looks like a direct clone of the Arri design, which is very similar to the Cool Lights units that I have (meaning, both look like they're clones of the Arri design). That doesn't mean they're exactly the same, obviously. I do hope folks understand that.
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
No problem Barry. You actually bought your unit in late 2007 but took delivery in early 2008, so time is flying ;-). Yes the $399 was an intro price and wasn't meant as the permanent price.
bclighting
Well-known member
Richard,
I just recently purchase a pair of your 255 fluorescents and have been on the fence about getting your fresnels. I have been very pleased with the lights so far and would not hesitate to buy more when the time comes. My daytime job is a lighting designer and moving light programmer, in the moving light world there has been some major issues with stolen IP and knockoff fixtures. I bought your fluorescents because they are an original design and not a copy. The fresnels are harder for me to get because they do look so much like the Arri's. Please tell me that I am way off base and I have nothing to worry about. That may help me get over my "snobbyness".
I just recently purchase a pair of your 255 fluorescents and have been on the fence about getting your fresnels. I have been very pleased with the lights so far and would not hesitate to buy more when the time comes. My daytime job is a lighting designer and moving light programmer, in the moving light world there has been some major issues with stolen IP and knockoff fixtures. I bought your fluorescents because they are an original design and not a copy. The fresnels are harder for me to get because they do look so much like the Arri's. Please tell me that I am way off base and I have nothing to worry about. That may help me get over my "snobbyness".
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Since I don't have the funds at the moment, I'm not in the 'pro' light market... but when I do have the money, I'd go with someone who actually posts to this forum, rather than going with certain 'name brands', especially since the fora are not filled with bad reports of the Cool Lights.
When I did have money for my strobes I picked Norman Strobes of then Burbank California, since I could drive to their plant with my non-functional strobe, get it repaired, on those rare occasions, often while I waited... (They've folded their tents and disappeared into the photography equipment past for the most part... there may be a shadow out there somewhere...). But the point is, I chose them over others because of that 'access'.
These days with everything seeming to come from China... driving to the plant is not an option... but access to 'someone inside', is to me better than only communicating via a sales rep, distributor, or worse... retail sales guy at some counter at some equipment store...
photonashville
Well-known member
Being made in China is not inherently a bad thing. Every Apple product is made in China, just designed in the US of A.
Paul Buff is probably by volume the largest studio flash lighting company in the world and most or all the parts are made in China and just assembled locally. It's a world economy, that's not changing. There are quality brands that stand behind their products which are made or manufactured in China.
I have 5 lights from Cool Lghts, LED and flos and currently quite pleased with the visual results I get, the fixtures work and the price was good.
Paul Buff is probably by volume the largest studio flash lighting company in the world and most or all the parts are made in China and just assembled locally. It's a world economy, that's not changing. There are quality brands that stand behind their products which are made or manufactured in China.
I have 5 lights from Cool Lghts, LED and flos and currently quite pleased with the visual results I get, the fixtures work and the price was good.
bclighting
Well-known member
This is very true. I am much more inclined to go with someone that has a presence here.
I'm not talking down on things made in China, just those factories that achieve a result by stealing someone else's R&D.
Reminds me of Jurassic Park
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
Thanks for your comments and business Ben.
Everyone has philosophies about this but I don't think its realistic to single out film and television lighting is different from other products or that they should have some special pass to not have competing versions or be higher than everything should be. Nor do I think that most people even understand what "IP" is, when there is a problem, when there isn't, etc. That is really something between companies, lawyers, etc. This isn't a "knock off" Rolex with Rolex written on it. There isn't all that much difference between Altman and Arri either for example. Why are certain manufacturers sacred cows?
All popular products go through a stage where they almost become a commodity and there isn't all that much difference between competing versions--appliances, hard drives, motherboards, bios code, cars, etc. Even when you have cosmetic differences between products (which is often the main difference) there may well be not all that much difference conceptually on the inside). Cloning isn't something evil, its a process of improvement and adding competition to the market. You should be thankful for this process or everything you buy would be so damn expensive no one could afford it.
They aren't a 100% copy. You can put these products side by side and you will see the little differences--some improvements, some differences that were that way so we could do other things we wanted to like our CDM line with minor modifications from the tungsten versions.
Who made the first fresnel? How did the next fresnel that came along from someone else look? So it looks different and thats okay but its still a fresnel. This camera looks different from that one but they have a lot of the same functions. My motherboard looks a lot like the one from competing suppliers. My Hitachi 1TB hard drive looks a lot like a Seagate or WD 1TB except for the labeling and minor changes to the circuit board. All those type products have passed over into a stage of commoditization and thank heavens for that or we wouldn't be even on a forum talking like this on computers such as we have today nor would the internet probably have taken hold as it has. I shudder to think what would have happened if Compaq hadn't won in IBM Vs. Compaq 1982. The computer market would have been continued to be dominated by IBM and the IBM standard would not be the PC Industry standard that it is today which is pretty darn good, and pretty darn cost effective too.
The film and television lighting market is much smaller than the computer or appliance or car market, but that doesn't mean if there is one product which becomes ubiquitous that there won't be clones. No one clones Moles. They had a good strategy there, make it good but make it ugly. You can't rule out the attractiveness or compactness factors in why things are popular or become ubiquitous.
Michael Kosciesza
Member
How is it working with those 255's? I'm thinking about picking one up from Richard. Did you get the dimmable version? I'm a little concerned about the wattage of the light... I'm afraid it may not be enough light for me to light a subject/ or area on set. I'd use this for interviews mostly as a backlight, heck why not a key or even a fill..? But I hear flos aren't too powerful and have a rapid drop off so you'd have to get pretty close to the subject in order to light them properly. The quality of flo's is beautiful, very soft, very gentle.
Maybe I'll be better off with the 455 ?
What do you use the 255's on?
Haha sorry if I'm asking too many questions here, I just never found a solid answer from anyone about these, and really wanna do some research before I buy.
THANKS!
Maybe I'll be better off with the 455 ?
What do you use the 255's on?
Haha sorry if I'm asking too many questions here, I just never found a solid answer from anyone about these, and really wanna do some research before I buy.
THANKS!
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
This is very true. I am much more inclined to go with someone that has a presence here.
I'm not talking down on things made in China, just those factories that achieve a result by stealing someone else's R&D.
Reminds me of Jurassic Park
Then again...
-------------------
Dr. Emmett "Doc" L. Brown: No wonder this circuit failed it says made in Japan.
Marty McFly: What are you talking about Doc, all the best stuff is made in Japan.
Dr. Emmett "Doc" L. Brown: Unbelievable.
-------------------
In my 'day job' I have had to deal with such 'innovative' companies as Motorola... in particular equipment that is still being manufactured, that has a processor (a 40 pin DIP no less, which hasn't been in 'new designs' for about 20-25 years...), which was designed in the late 70's, software that was designed, and most likely frozen since the mid-80's... and sold to people because 'no one ever got fired for choosing Motorola'...
If you want to talk about dinosaurs in a corporate Jurassic Park...
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
No one ever got fired for buying IBM was also a favorite saying up till about the 90s I think. Compaq paved the way for clones and cloning PCs changed all that to where it was obvious that not only was it silly to just buy IBM, but also that large computers (something that IBM of course was also leading in) were less and less important and PCs really started replacing a lot of large computer functions. That would not have happened if Compaq didn't step up not only in an intelligent but legal cloning process that was defend-able in court and was vindicated and then the IBM standard became a PC Industry standard that everyone could follow. Even Apple follows this standard today it became so strong. That whole progression is a good example for trying to understand what "IP" means and that it is not based on emotions or feelings or even press releases of companies trying to get public opinion on their side.
That quote from Back to the Future is indicative of what will happen to China eventually too. Is happening now while we chat here. There was a real stereotype there just like there is with China today. We just woke up one day and all of a sudden Japan wasn't a joke anymore and major competition especially in cars. Let alone televisions and cameras. Perhaps the gas crisis of 72 was where people really got introduced to Japanese cars for example.
Most people don't realize is that H.K., Japan and Taiwan are the brains of Asia but China is the brawn. Don't think for a minute though that they aren't "growing some brains" here right now just like Japan was in the sixties. Those countries are all generally viewed as putting out higher quality products. What is really happening today is that designs may be finalized in those places but the real manufacturing isn't taking place there all that much because of costs being higher in those countries. There are more and more subassemblies and even complete assemblies being done in China but supposedly "Made in Japan". Practically all the major brands of LCD TV for example are made in China now. Many cameras as well. Not so many sophisticated chips yet but that's going to change too. With the correct supervision you can have good products come from anywhere.
That quote from Back to the Future is indicative of what will happen to China eventually too. Is happening now while we chat here. There was a real stereotype there just like there is with China today. We just woke up one day and all of a sudden Japan wasn't a joke anymore and major competition especially in cars. Let alone televisions and cameras. Perhaps the gas crisis of 72 was where people really got introduced to Japanese cars for example.
Most people don't realize is that H.K., Japan and Taiwan are the brains of Asia but China is the brawn. Don't think for a minute though that they aren't "growing some brains" here right now just like Japan was in the sixties. Those countries are all generally viewed as putting out higher quality products. What is really happening today is that designs may be finalized in those places but the real manufacturing isn't taking place there all that much because of costs being higher in those countries. There are more and more subassemblies and even complete assemblies being done in China but supposedly "Made in Japan". Practically all the major brands of LCD TV for example are made in China now. Many cameras as well. Not so many sophisticated chips yet but that's going to change too. With the correct supervision you can have good products come from anywhere.
Barry_Green
Moderator
And now, I can verify that what Richard is saying, is indeed true. Apples and oranges. I just got the 1200W version off ebay... and it ain't the same as my 150W Cool Lights. Cool Lights is better in construction, quieter, and with a better beam pattern. Color accuracy is actually better on the 1200w but it's so noisy that it could only be used on an MOS shot. I have no doubt that Richard's 1200W, while being 2.5x the price, would at least be usable on an actual set! And his is a PAR, as opposed to a fresnel.
This is true as well. I was shocked and dismayed at how loud the ballast on the 1200W HMI is... it sounds like a semi truck idling outside. You know when you're trying to get a shot and some frickin' truck is idling outside and they won't go away and it's ruining the dialogue? That's what this ballast sounds like.
This looks sort of like the 1200W unit's ballast. And actually, I have no idea if this unit is hot restrike or not, as it came with zero instructions. It did, however, come with a doll of Minnie Mouse. I do not know why.The $999 575 only one in the ebay listing looks nothing like their's:
Cool Lights
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Color accuracy is entirely due to bulb and should well be, there's a huge difference in price between the 1200w HMI SE bulb and our $29 150w HQI bulb. HMI bulbs go through a much more rigorous process of QA and control because of the necessities of hot restrike and how hard it is on the bulb.
As far as whether your unit is hot restrike or not, you should look at the socket used. Is it a G22 1200w HMI or G38? G38 is way bigger and hot restrike capable if the ignitor and ballast are also hot restrike capable. G22 for a 1200w would be a non-hot restrike.
In general I know a lot about what's happening over here and what's coming available. If I'm not selling something there is usually a good reason--some catch 22 or some other thing they didn't think through very far. Loud fan plus no capability to make a longer cord = not worth it.
As far as whether your unit is hot restrike or not, you should look at the socket used. Is it a G22 1200w HMI or G38? G38 is way bigger and hot restrike capable if the ignitor and ballast are also hot restrike capable. G22 for a 1200w would be a non-hot restrike.
In general I know a lot about what's happening over here and what's coming available. If I'm not selling something there is usually a good reason--some catch 22 or some other thing they didn't think through very far. Loud fan plus no capability to make a longer cord = not worth it.
bclighting
Well-known member
No problems!
I bought the non dimmable ones with 5600k lamps. Since I work at a lighting production house I have no shortage of gel and diffusion to get the look that I want. The main reason for me buying them was for a soft interview lighting setup. I have only used them once so far and I am very impressed. In fact, they have so much intensity that I not only put full CTO on them for an indoors shoot, I also put a sheet of spun diffusion on them and the levels were perfect. I haven't gotten my meter out yet but I think they blow away some of the Videssence fixtures that I have at work. One of the next ones on my list is a 455 but a dimmable one for better control. I bought these to get in close and keep the heat down so I'm not expecting any issues with dropoff. That being said, I had some unfiltered light leaking past the barndoors and out into another room and I was amazed by how well it carried. Now I just need to wait for that quick release MAM mount so I don't have to futz with the screws anymore.
Richard,
Thank you for your response, I'll simply explain why I brought this up and where I am coming from. In the early days of moving lights they were invented by a couple of guys in the US. Their company policy was not to sell the lights but to only rent them. An Italian company then began to make some of their own with their own design and sold those lights. Soon there were 3 other companies making lights that were very similar to the Italian ones, one of those companies was another US based one. After a few years all of these companies began to branch out and come up with new ideas to push the industry farther. Fast forward to today when I can buy a genuine Martin (which used to be thought as a cheap DJ company) Mac 2000 or I could find a knockoff Mario 2000. They both look the same and even use the same software but the guts are totally different. The Mario may cost a third of the price but it may only last for 3 gigs. Meanwhile the Mac 2000 could go on for years. Sure you get what you pay for BUT the real issue is the people that try to claim that the Mario fixture is the exact same thing as the Mac fixture and you should buy three times as many.
I'm not knocking made in China in general. I simply have an issue with those factories that for 2 shifts make the Mac bodies that Martin is paying them to make, and then take the 3rd shift to make the same thing and line their own pockets.
Now my disclaimer, I used Martin simply as an example. I believe they actually make most of their parts in Europe and they may own a factory in China.
I applaud you Richard for moving there to oversee your operation. I think too often companies just ship their products over to be photocopied without ever having any real relationship with the factory. Now that I am an owner of your equipment I am also a believer in the company as well. I do have one request, I could really use a Panasonic battery option for the LED256. That has really been my only reason for not getting one yet. :thumbsup:
PS, it is also great that I can also communicate directly with the man behind the curtain. I wouldn't be able to do that to Arri!
Barry_Green
Moderator
It's G38, but the listing (looked it up) said no hot restrike. No big deal, I mean -- is it worth it? Not really. I might send it back, but $200 to ship it... ugh.
Needless to say, I've decided to look more closely at your product offerings next time!