FAQ Cooke zoom and support rods

H

Harry Lime

Well-known member
I just picked up a Cooke 18-100mm and need to figure out how I'm going to rig this beast with my F3.
At 14 lbs it very obviously needs to be supported on the rods.

Here is the question.

Has anyone supported one of these with 15mm steel rods or are 19mm a must?
Maybe heavy duty steel 15mm? Duclos makes a set with walls that are double the normal thickness.

It would be ideal if I could get away with 15mm (60mm spacing) since all of my accessories conform to that standard.


thx
 
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The Cooke 18-100mm is one of my favorite lenses!

That being said, you will want 19mm rods with lens support.

If all your accessories are 15mm, then you can add a 19mm/15mm support adapter and run both 15mm & 19mm rods.

You will also need something along the lines of a long ARRI style bride plate so you can balance your camera/lens on the head.

All the best!

Dave
 
I was afraid you would say that... :-)

Guess I'll have to crack open the piggy bank one more time and bite the bullet for 19mm.


Can't wait to shoot this one. It's been on my wish list for a long time.



thx
 
Harry Lime said:
I was afraid you would say that... :-)

Guess I'll have to crack open the piggy bank one more time and bite the bullet for 19mm.


Can't wait to shoot this one. It's been on my wish list for a long time.



thx
Click to expand...

Hi Harry,
I own a 20-100 and love it. It looks great with my F3. I mean really great.
I use it with 15mm steel rods for the very reason you are interested in doing the same. (You are going to need 24" rods though)
Absoutely no problem in terms of support. Don't even need the Duclos ones.

However, you need to be aware that since the front of the lens is so large, you are going to need to use a baseplate with can provide enough clearance of the rods. Essentially it does the work of a riser. I use an O'Connor baseplate, which works quite well.

Additionally, your follow focus is going to need to get under the lens as well as be far enough away from the barrel that it is not being impeded by it. This can be quite difficult to find a good match for because 60mm spacing under such a large lens front means using a follow which is very extendable. Swing arm follow focus's are useful for this. I use an Arri LFF-1 on an additional dogbone (like a third rail) or an FF4 for mine.

Lastly, the lens is going to need a decent lens support bridge. (not to mention the lens support itself) Most of them are designed for 15mm studio or 19mm. They can be quite expensive, but you need one for 15mm which is exactly matched to the height of your lens support. In other words when it is unscrewed it is still supporting the lens. Otherwise you are going to create too much flex on your mount by such a heavy unsupported lens. For something like this you therfore do not want a Zacuto support with adjustable post. You want a bridge.

Lastly, don't know what fluid head you are using, but it definitely means moving up a weight class. Probably 100mm bowl territory.

These old Zooms are wonderful, but they do require a solid update of all of your equipment.
 
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Hey Yoclay

I was was looking at the usual mix of 19mm and 15mm components to put together. It can be done, but it looks like a Rube Goldberg contraption and I wasn't sure if my FF would fit under the lens properly.

So I did a dry run with my 15mm Berkey Systems F3 baseplate assembly.

http://store.berkeysystem.com/sony-pmw-f3-panasonic-ag-af100-baseplate-assembly/

It came with some extra spacers which increased the gap between the top and bottom plate to about 3 inches (ultimately I would replace these with one piece spacers). Then I added the rods and the follow focus (Chrosziel compact). I got everything to line up, but of course the 15mm rods were unsupported for a good 10-12 inches to reach the lens support connection on the Cooke.

I gave it some thought and figured that if the bottom cheese plate of the Berkey baseplate was about 12-14 inches long I could add a third Quad Rail block (http://store.berkeysystem.com/quad-rail-block/) at the end of the extended cheese plate to support the 15mm rods just before the lens support. Beyond that would go the follow focus. I emailed Brian Berkey about an extended 12-14 inch cheese plate and he's going to look into the possibility of supplying one.

It's an unconventional design, but it's a lot more compact and convoluted than the hybrid 15/19mm setup. I'm pretty certain that the 1/4 inch thick cheese plate with steel 15mm rods and three Quad Rail blocks is enough to support the 14lbs Cooke. And I will be able to get my follow focus to work, which I don't believe would be possible with a conventional setup.


IMG_6046.jpg

I use an OConnor 100 fluid head on a Ronford & Baker two stage tripod. The F3 with primes never was quite heavy enough for that head, but with the Cooke that should no longer be a problem. (my old Mitchell NC-R weighed about 90lbs assembled)


thanks
 
Hey Harry,
Looks like your setup is not quite straight, but I recognize it's just a mockup really.
I use a Sachtler 165 DSLR dovetail plate on the bottom which is definitely long enough:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/757581-REG/Sachtler_0165_165_DSLR_Plate_for.html
You don't need a second attach point for it in the front and your center of balance will never be as far in front as the area in red that you are suggesting.

I like this plate because it eliminates the need for an expensive and heavy ARRI style dovetail system.
I also use a Sachtler sideload camera platform:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839492-REG/sachtler_s2010_1000_side_load_camera_platform.html

The reason for this is because the setup is so long and heavy that you don't want to be trying to slide it into connection with your tripod head. It is far easier to plop it down on top as a sideload click in place.

Vitec made a similar version for O'Connor, but instead of it being $200, it is $900:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/925345-REG/oconnor_c1248_1001_sideload_quick_release_top.html

That Sachtler platform is really just the top piece of a conventional 75mm Sachtler fluid head. I had a plate machined to the bottom of it with a bunch of screw mount holes up the center so that it could be attached to any tripod's plate whenever and wherever I want. This enables me to switch out lenses and systems and I can go from a 75mm to 150mm fluid head without ever detaching my bottomplate now.

I also use a Vocas handle from their DSLR system because it is much higher than most and attaches directly to the rods, creating more stability and eliminating flex. You don't want to use the handle on the F3 anyhow with such a heavy setup. Way too fragile. But of course you already know this I am sure.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/731353-REG/Vocas_0350_0400_Topside_Handgrip.html

I will put together that setup a little later and post a photo of it here for you to examine.

The other thing of course is mattebox's. You have a 150mm front I believe, whereas mine is 144mm. The sticky point is that you will definitely need a 5.65 x 5.65 polarizer and grad ND (for vertical mode when bringing down a window on the side of a composition for instance). The 4 x 5.65 filters are too small if rotated and 138 rounds may vignette at 18mm.
 
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Harry, here is a old shot of a 20-100mm, same size as 18-100mm, rigged up with 15mm rods.

Going to 19mm rods along with a extended baseplate made all the difference in the world.
 

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  • 15mm rods.jpg
    15mm rods.jpg
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Just a thought.... You might check with Allstar Cine. I seem to remember he was blowing out all his rod/baseplate/support stuff.

Good Luck!

Dave
 
Thank you gents. I'll have to sort through all the different options and see what works. My main concern is that there is enough clearance for my follow focus. Unfortunately it will only extend so far from the rods and the circumference of the Cooke is quite large. It will fit with that Berkey system contraption.


pimage_67272.jpg
 
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I've been using a Cooke 18-100mm lens on an F3 (and more recently on my FS7) with 15mm steel rails for years. Solid as a rock with zero problems.
 
After considering everyones advice I went out and had a peek at my options.

I looked at a 19mm setup and basically that would have meant buying new accessories. Far too rich a solution for my blood and pretty bulky.

Then I looked at a 19mm setup with the 15mm riser. This would allow the use of my 15mm accessories, but it's quite a Frankenstein contraption and I still wasn't sure if there would be enough clearance under the lens for my Chrosziel DV follow focus.

After some brainstorming (more like a shower) I came up with this solution that is based on the 15mm (60mm) Berkey Systems F3 baseplate that I already own.
I got in contact with Brian Berkey and sent him a design sketch for an extended bottom cheese plate that would allow me to add a third quad block to support the extra weight of the Cooke and prevent the rods from flexing. Brian is an absolute pleasure to work with and he was very helpful in putting this together.

This custom design allowed me to use all of my 15mm accessories while maintaining a very compact footprint.


So far it seems to work, but I'll be out shooting with the rig over the next few days for some testing.
If all goes well I'll send the nude parts back to Brian for anodizing.


F3_Cooke18_100T3.jpg

F3_Cooke18_100T3_02.jpg

F3_Cooke18_100T3_03.jpg
 
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