GH4 Convince me: A7s, GH4 with Nikon Speedbooster, or FS100 with Canon Speedbooster?

M

Max Berkowitz

New member
Hey guys,

I'm having a lot of trouble deciding what to get for a camera. To start off, I mainly shoot mountain biking in low light environments, and I run a T3i with ML and Cinestyle.
You can see my style of shooting through these two vids:

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/339786/

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/348919/

For lenses I run a Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 non-IS, a Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8, an SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4, and a Super Takumar 28mm f/3.5.

My budget is a little under 4000$, but I'd rather spend closer to 2500-3500 as then I can get the camera before summer and most of my gigs this year.

Let's run through the options:

Sell my 70-200 and 11-16, and buy a GH4 with a nikon speedbooster. Switch those lenses for their Nikon mount equivalents ( if you have any suggestions, other wise Tokina 11-16 Nikon, and Tamron 70-200 nikon)

Keep my lenses, get an FS100 used with an EF Speedbooster.

Keep my lenses, wait for the A7s, buy an EF to E adapter.

What should I do? I'm leaning towards the GH4 but I love the idea of a future upgrade to an FS700.

By the way, I'm in Canada, so I can sell my lenses for a fair bit more than you USA folks.
 
The A7s rolling shutter test should scare you away and narrow it down to 2 choices. Also, rumored prices are all over the map, the bit rate seems pretty low, and you will need that external record.
Also, Metabones is goin gto make a special speed booster just for the GH4 which is pretty cool.
 
Focus for fast-moving action is gonna be a bear on the two full-frame choices (A7 or FS100 + SB). The GH4 + SB will be a s35 equivalent, which will have a more manageable DOF.

Past that it will depend on your shooting style I suppose. I didn't watch your sample vids as I am on my phone but I imagine that shooting mountain biking you will want a small/light kit, which would eliminate the FS100 in my eyes.
 
m43user said:
The A7s rolling shutter test should scare you away and narrow it down to 2 choices. Also, rumored prices are all over the map, the bit rate seems pretty low, and you will need that external record.
Also, Metabones is goin gto make a special speed booster just for the GH4 which is pretty cool.
Click to expand...

Any idea when that'll come out? We've seen reports that an M43 to EF adapter is down the line, but it's all speculation. Don't want to buy a GH4 only to wait to adapt my glass.
 
Your best bet based on your needs will be the FS100! I have this setup and it is a great cinematic camera.
 
C100 and FS100 are great cinema cameras that make shooting video a whole lot easier. The GH4 and a7s aren't available yet and you would be at the cutting edge with them when delivered.

Why are you looking to upgrade?

I would save up more money and move to a used C100. You already have the lenses to go with it so you dont have to deal with switching over.
 
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AlexOlson said:
Haven't heard about a special speedbooster for the gh4. Can you provide more details?
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I hadn't heard of anything either, thanks for posting the link m43user.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I would be interested in a straight M4/3 to M4/3 speedbooster. Improving the crop factor to something like a 1.4 which would allow M4/3 users to get a wider look and gaining an extra stop of light for getting an easier shallow depth of field look would be very appealing to me.
 
True North said:
I hadn't heard of anything either, thanks for posting the link m43user.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I would be interested in a straight M4/3 to M4/3 speedbooster. Improving the crop factor to something like a 1.4 which would allow M4/3 users to get a wider look and gaining an extra stop of light for getting an easier shallow depth of field look would be very appealing to me.
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That doesn't make any sense at all. All speedboosters do is reduce the image circle designed for larger coverage. In the case of ef lenses, you have a full frame image circle that would get half of it wasted on a traditional m43 sensor due to the crop. This only works because the full frame glass is bigger - it doesn't add more to the image than existed before, rather makes more of it accessible to you. You can'treduce something that is ALREADY the same size!
 
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There is also no space for a rear glass element reducer for a "M4/3>M4/3 speedbooster". Taking in account of flange distance as well as the reducer making the the angle of light sharper - what we'd see is a smaller vignetted image that would only macro focus.

Max, in my opinion it really depends what you prefer working with ergonomically. The GH4 certainly comes within your budget if you want 4K and slow mo however. I'm also eying the A7S because of the compact body with full frame, but I am disappointed with the rolling shutter and lack of 4K in camera.
 
Erik Naso said:
C100 and FS100 are great cinema cameras that make shooting video a whole lot easier. The GH4 and a7s aren't available yet and you would be at the cutting edge with them when delivered.

Why are you looking to upgrade?

I would save up more money and move to a used C100. You already have the lenses to go with it so you dont have to deal with switching over.
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I will echo what Erik said. You already have a shooting solution right now. Save your cash for a used C100 and use your T3i as a B camera and for stills. All your lenses will transfer over seamlessly.
 
The C100 is probably your best choice IF you can get one for the right price (used?) and IF you don't want or need some of the GH4's unique advantages right now.

Otherwise, I think the GH4 is the other best choice because:
4k
High bit rates
422 10bit with external recorder
Possibly 10bit 444 internally if doing a 4k -> 2k workflow
Small and portable (with m43 lenses would be the smallest kit by far)
m43 will be easier to focus, with the flexibility to go up to S35 size with Speedbooster. The ease of focus may be an even stronger factor if comparing 4k cameras.
Fast sensor readout in 2k, decent in 4k = less rolling shutter. Regardless, go for IS lenses if you do any handheld work.

If it were me, for your described use I would stay away from both Sonys. Even though they both seem to be excellent cameras, they have a couple of shortcomings that could be a big factor depending on your shooting style (didn't have a chance to watch your videos):

A7S: Rolling shutter, if the early test results are confirmed.
FS100: shoebox form factor and odd interface with a ton of buttons. Never shot with it myself, but both could be problems in run and gun productions.
 
Erik Naso said:
C100 and FS100 are great cinema cameras that make shooting video a whole lot easier. The GH4 and a7s aren't available yet and you would be at the cutting edge with them when delivered.

Why are you looking to upgrade?

I would save up more money and move to a used C100. You already have the lenses to go with it so you dont have to deal with switching over.
Click to expand...

My T3i is fun, but slow motion is soft, and lowlight performance leaves a lot to be desired. I can barely run past ISO 800 without noise from hell. As well, it simply isn't sharp enough, compared to the options out there. To be perfectly honest Canon isn't on the forefront of video technology anymore. They had their chance with the 5DIII and they blew it, and I'm not interested in investing in a brand that relies on their name rather than their performance. Furthermore, the C100 has no 4K, and no 60FPS, only 60i.

There's better options at that price range, including the Kinefinity Raw, which looks interesting, but not for me as I want a more action oriented setup.

Right now, I'm basically ready for the GH4 with nikon booster just need another day or two to think. It's really only my 70-200 holding me back, I love that baby.
 
Max Berkowitz said:
Right now, I'm basically ready for the GH4 with nikon booster just need another day or two to think. It's really only my 70-200 holding me back, I love that baby.
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See if you can find a shop or someone who can let you try out Panasonic 35-100 2.8. It's supposed to be a fantastic lens, with the same equivalent focal length to the 70-200, but much smaller, from what I understand.

Either way, I would probably try out all the m43 gear before selling your lenses, to make sure that you actually like the overall m43 shooting experience (ergonomics, size, crop factor, interfaces, etc) before investing into it.
 
Try before you buy. Wait at least until the Sony and the GH4 are out, then test them to see how the meet your needs - judging cameras that are not out yet just by the spec sheet is a prescription for disappointment... speaking just for myself, I have been disappointed every time when the camera actually arrives, it almost ALWAYS has some "gotcha" - for example, the GH3 sounded so much better than the GH2 on paper, and for the most part it was, but as often happens, the newer camera was worse than the older one in some respects (EVF quality, sensor crop etc.). GH4 sounds great on paper, but I fully expect it to have some "gotchas".
 
Max Berkowitz said:
My T3i is fun, but slow motion is soft, and lowlight performance leaves a lot to be desired. I can barely run past ISO 800 without noise from hell. As well, it simply isn't sharp enough, compared to the options out there. To be perfectly honest Canon isn't on the forefront of video technology anymore. They had their chance with the 5DIII and they blew it, and I'm not interested in investing in a brand that relies on their name rather than their performance. Furthermore, the C100 has no 4K, and no 60FPS, only 60i.

There's better options at that price range, including the Kinefinity Raw, which looks interesting, but not for me as I want a more action oriented setup.

Right now, I'm basically ready for the GH4 with nikon booster just need another day or two to think. It's really only my 70-200 holding me back, I love that baby.
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All good points but I don't agree with you about your perception of Canon. The C100 is by far a much better camera than a 5D MKIII or other DSLR's image wise. Very sharp picture. If you need over cranking then shoot 60i and use the footage in a 24p timeline. Need even more slowmo then it's not the camera for you.

The Kinefinity Raw is not an option. That's a shell of a camera and it would cost a bunch more than you want to spend to get it up to shooting speed.

I think you will do very well with the GH4. Not that much smaller of a sensor than S35 and the dang camera is so loaded and shoots 4K internally. So cool. As for lenses the Lumix 12-35 and 35-100 are amazing and super compact and light. I have both and IS works great for handheld. If you like pulling focus it's not a good choose since they are electronic and can't repeat focus. The Rokinon cine versions are really nice especially the 35mm and 85mm. The GH4 can pretty much use any lens with an adapter including PL mount cinema lenses.

I shoot with a C100 and C300 with a GH4 on the way. It really is going to be a nice addition to the family!
 
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