Continuous card-swapping W/out P2Store?

[ullanta]

If I remember correctly, Jan said at DVExpo that before re-use, a P2 Card must be reformatted in-camera. Or, at least, erased in-camera. This was said to be "pretty instant".

Given frequent discussion and workflow diagrams, I assume that the P2Store can perform the same formatting/erasing operation, so one can shoot continuously, pulling out one card at a time and downoading to P2store.

However, I'm wondering if anyone knows for sure if the necessary reformatting/erasing could be performed on a laptop. I just remember somewhere someone mentioning that it can't. And, if not, if a card could indeed be reformatted in-camera without interrupting recording to the other card... or basically, is continuous recording via card-swapping possible without a P2store?

 

[Barry_Green]

It can. The P2 Viewer software that Panasonic provides with the camera can format cards.

You couldn't re-format in-camera because formatting requires you to swap to VCR/MCR mode. So yes, you'd either re-format in the P2 Store or in the laptop using P2 Viewer.

 

[David Saraceno]

The p2 viewer works with the P2 card that is inserted in the PowerBook PCMCIA (cardbus) slot?

So it is Mac compatible?

 

[Barry_Green]

Don't know about the Mac. The P2 Viewer software I used is for the PC.

 

[Brian Petersen]

Don't know about the Mac. The P2 Viewer software I used is for the PC.

I certainly hope this option is available on Mac. This will really mess up my workflow if it is not available.

 

[Green Hornet]

So what your telling me is I can't really do a swap without formatting each time?

No--> shoot to P2--> dump to laptop----> shoot to P2 again?


I would have to:
shoot to p2---> dumpt to laptop---> format---> then shoot to p2 again?

Seems like there could be a software mode selectable to allow the camera to over write footage without having to format each time. That would only make sense. Something like:

Write protect date: yes no

in the selectable menu.
Maybe they could put that in a firmwear update.

 

[Brian Petersen]

Seems like there could be a software mode selectable to allow the camera to over write footage without having to format each time. That would only make sense.

If I remember Jan correctly, there is some "constant" recording feature that just writes to one P2 card, then the other, and goes back and forth copying over the "old" footage until you stop it. (Kind of like the Pre-record feature only to the extreme).

If that is true then it can record over old footage, OR it can format one P2 card while the other is being recorded to (i.e. NOT in VTR mode). Someone chime in about this feature and how it works please.

 

[ullanta]

I would have to:
shoot to p2---> dumpt to laptop---> format---> then shoot to p2 again?

Well, yes, but that shouldn't be too tedious... Jan did say the reformatting process was close to instantaneous. I just wanted to confirm that a laptop could do it.

Of course, I'd like to hear if a MAC laptop could do it, now...

I also assume that once could erase everything via the laptop, but that might be slower...

I don't know how well the constant recording feature would work for this... I didn't have the impression that the cards could be removed during this process (though it may be possible)... but more importantly, I don't think you'd have the control over the process that at least some situations would demand...

 

[Brian Petersen]

I don't know how well the constant recording feature would work for this... I didn't have the impression that the cards could be removed during this process (though it may be possible)... but more importantly, I don't think you'd have the control over the process that at least some situations would demand...

i only mentioned the constant recording feature because Barry said that the P2 cards can only be formatted in the VTR mode, but obviously the HVX is reformatting it during REC mode during it's "constant" recording feature. And if it wasn't then it would be recording over old footage which someone else posted wondering if it could do.

 

[Barry_Green]

Loop Recording is different -- I haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet, but basically as I understand it (preliminary here) it uses the unallocated surface of the card for buffer space. No file system exists until you hit "record start" and then later "record stop". So it's not like it's reformatting the cards; I believe you can use partially-recorded-on cards in loop record and it still works. The file doesn't exist in the file system until you tell it to stop recording.

 

[jaegersing]

If these are flash-based cards, you'd have to erase the previous data before you could write new data. Flash can be erased by sector or by chip, but not by selectable (random) address. So I'm not sure how this loop mode could overwrite old data without at least doing a sector erase first. Will be interested to find out more about this.

Richard Hunter

 

[eLeventy]

shoot to p2---> dumpt to laptop---> format---> then shoot to p2 again?

This is the ( only) correct workflow. Note that you have to dump to an 'intelligent media'. I.e. a laptop, a P2-Store, or make a HDD intelligent by using the camera as a driver.

P2-cards are inherently copy protected: clips that are on the card cannot be overwritten. Before you can write again, you either format the whole card, or delete individual clips. This can be done in camera or on a laptop after the copy process. The P2-Store can only format the whole card, not delete individual clips.

So, for continuous card swapping, either use a laptop or the camera to erase/format. The actual formatting takes only a second or so, but the camera can't be recording at that time.
If you want to do continuous recording( ie one very long shot) , you have to do your copying/formatting in a p2-Store or a laptop before you pop the card back in, and hope the whole process is done before the second card runs out. For continuous recording it's better to look at other solutions like the cineporter, firestore, firewire-2-laptop,....

Loop recording: there are basically 2 versions( I'm not sure both are available on the HVX):
Pre-rec: When the camera is not recording, actually an internal ( RAM)-buffer is used to continuously record a couple of seconds of video. As soon as you press the start button, you recorded image starts a couple of seconds before you pressed the start button. You cannot use this to help you with continuous recording.

Loop-Rec: Say you have 2x8GB cards, with an old 2 minute clip on the second card. With loop-rec, you press press the start button, and the camera starts recording on the 1st card. After 8mins, the card is full and the cam jumps to the 2nd card, OVER the first 2min clip, leaving it intact. After 6 mins the second card is also full, and the cam jumps back to the first card, OVERWRITING the 8min clip. It's like a snake eating its own tail. The camera keeps on recording hour after hour over the same spot. As soon as you push the stop button, the clip is finalized and written to the FAT. You have actually recorded the last 14 minutes( 8+6).
Is this usefull? Probably for some things, but not for continuous recording.

I haven't tested what would happen if, during loop-rec, you pop out the 1st card, quickly copy and format it, and put it back in. Probably you'll either get an error, or you create a gap in the space-time continuum, and actually end up filming the Big Bang.

 

[dregenthal]

. . . Probably you'll either get an error, or you create a gap in the space-time continuum, and actually end up filming the Big Bang.

Now THAT'S funny!

 

[P2metoo]

Remeber there are two card in the camera for loop recording and it erase the whole card. so if you have 6min rec in first card goes to second card record 8 min then on nine minutes you stop recording the first six minutes on the first card is completly gone you have only one minutes left on it. You can not loop on one card.