Considering move from Z1 to HVX, but some questions...

MattDavis

MattDavis

Well-known member
Have searched for these answers, apologies if I've missed them...

I've been spending quality time with a friend's HVX200 (much loved, much used). I've been enjoying its look, the DVCPro format, and all the heartwarming stuff that is part of the HVX. However, there are some oddities that aren't exactly fatal flaws, but can be classed as things that make me go 'hmmm'.

I note a slight darkening as I move from SD to 720 to 1080 on the HVX, not much, but it seems there's a slightly different setup for gamma and the like for the different resolutions. Is this a feature or a bug?

Similarly on the feature/bug list, I note that the lens barrel needs quite a bit of twiddling to go from one end of the focus to the other, thus making quick focus pulls quite a challenge on your own. The Z1 is coarse in comparison, but a good heafty tweak can get you from bokeh to pop. Is there a knack for the HVX? (I guess it's called 'your focus puller')

Shooting time-lapse to P2 with 5700mW (sic) batteries, I'm getting about two hours before it gets hungry. Whilst the solution may be to buy more batteries, I'm concerned that I'd hope for double that operation on a battery. Maybe I've been spoiled by the Z1, but I can shoot 3 hours plus on a single battery, and a day's shoot with two (and two pocketfuls of tapes). Maybe it's tired batteries. Maybe HD onto solid state media is more power hungry than I thought (I note the EX-1's new battery ratings, for example).

Does anyone use de-noising in post on a regular basis with HVX footage? I've turned the sharpness down in-camera and add just a teeny bit in post, and some of the boiling noise can be wiped away with de-noising, but it seems to be quite a few steps in that elusive chase for the perfect shot.

OTOH, I notice HVX footage can take way more grading than Z1 (yes, of course this is obvious), but even with DV, the HVX footage - when underexposed - can be pulled up with far less savagery than the Z1. Do shooters who edit their own material tend to go for in-camera looks over shooting flat and adding the look in post?

Lots of questions - but lots to learn!

Thanks, M.
 
1) the HD Norm and SD Norm gammas are slightly different, but you can select any of the 8 gamma curves in any of the modes, so just experiment with those. There's in inherent darkening that's due to HD mode.

2) The focus ring does have quite a long travel. It's way better than the Z1's ring for precision and repeatability, but it does travel quite a distance. You can get a remote focus controller like the Foxi or Zoe which will give you much quicker min/max focus turns.

3) You should get 3.5 hours out of a 5600mah battery. I'd ask what brand of battery you're using, and how old it is; on a new Panasonic or DVXUser battery you should get at least 3.5 hours, if not 4 hours, for time lapse stuff.
 
Barry_Green said:
I'd ask what brand of battery you're using, and how old it is; on a new Panasonic or DVXUser battery you should get at least 3.5 hours, if not 4 hours, for time lapse stuff.
Click to expand...

Thanks for those explanations, Barry. The batteries are Panasonic, but this is a well used and well loved example, so perhaps it's just age. Nothing is forever. I'll need to figure in some new batteries on top of the two 16 Gb P2 cards.

But the images will be worth it.
 
Obviously if you leave the LCD screen open during a timelapse you're going to have less battery time.
I've done long timelapses over two hours on the same battery with no problem.

Someone told me long ago if you like it, it's a feature. If you don't it's a bug. :)
 
Hi Matt:

I related in another post, I spent two years shooting with the Z1, then the past year or so with the HVXs at work, plus I just bought my own HVX. Been there, done that.

1. As you know, NTSC color space and HD color space are different as well as the gamma setups used by the camera. Nothing to be worried about, it's just the way it is.

2. I highly recommend Barry's suggestions and or a real follow focus if you are actually pulling real rack focus shots or selective focus shots on a regular basis. It can be done on the HVX alone but you have to get really good with the side of your index finger and rolling it across the lens barrel. It's not easy but not impossible either.

3. Not sure if the deal is still going but the free AB Elipsz battery that I received the HVX would easily shoot as much timelapse as you want. I also agree with the assertion that you should shut the LCD screen off, it does suck a lot of power.

4. I don't worry about the noise at all, it's part of the camera's aesthetic. The Z1 is MUCH cleaner but the HVX makes better looking pictures. Did you ever shoot S16? The film grain and noise on almost all 16mm stocks is a ton more than what the HVX has. Try shooting ASA 500 tungsten S16mm stock, now that is grain. The HVX grain, to me, is a unique part of the camera's look, which I happen to find apppealing if it's managed well. I don't like the extra grain from using gain but for 0dB up to about 6dB, I find it fine for most situations.

The Z1 has a much superior LCD screen.
The Z1 has a cleaner picture
The Z1 has horrible menus and navigation
The Z1 has stupid audio routing options and menus
The Z1 is about a stop and half slower than the HVX
HDV is a PITA
Long GOP is a PITA

The HVX has a better picture, color depth and contrast
The HVX is noisier
The HVX has simple and fairly friendly navigation and menus
The HVX has superior audio quality and MUCH better audio routing options
The HVX is about a stop and half faster
DVC Pro HD is a great shooting codec, very efficient and looks great
Editing DVCProHD is a dream

If money is tight, the DVX User batteries are excellent, I have two. Love them and they are cheap.

Hope you enjoy the HVX, it is a GREAT piece of gear, it is rapidly surpassing the DVX as my favorite camera I have owned and it makes me a lot of money. What more could I want?

Dan
 
Thanks, Dan - very reassuring info.

puredrifting said:
Did you ever shoot S16? The film grain and noise on almost all 16mm stocks is a ton more than what the HVX has. Try shooting ASA 500 tungsten S16mm stock, now that is grain. The HVX grain, to me, is a unique part of the camera's look, which I happen to find apppealing if it's managed well.
Click to expand...

My background is in editing (and I started in 16mm when it was used to shoot news items). A couple of years ago, I was given a BetaSP tape of 16mm and S16 archived rushes for use in a corporate. It wasn't the best of transfers, but now you come to mention it, yes: grain is grain, even if - in digital - it lacks the 'r'.

And, on very close examination of some of my HVX vs Z1 shots with subtle variations of tone, the Z1 shows posterisation whilst the HVX footage does not - I had put it down to the marvels of DVCPro-HD, but maybe.. is that the 'stochastic noise pattern' breaking it up like Debabelizer used to do?

I need to learn to stop thinking 'noise' and start thinking 'grain'.
 
Another question - sorry about this:

There's some great gear for remote focus/iris control, and for zoom control.

I'm hoping to fly the HVX on a Steadicam Pilot. Ideally, I'd like a remote start-stop button so that (assuming goofy-foot) I can start stop with my left hand whilst controlling the sled with my right.

Does something such as this exist?
 
MattDavis said:
Another question - sorry about this:

There's some great gear for remote focus/iris control, and for zoom control.

I'm hoping to fly the HVX on a Steadicam Pilot. Ideally, I'd like a remote start-stop button so that (assuming goofy-foot) I can start stop with my left hand whilst controlling the sled with my right.

Does something such as this exist?
Click to expand...

I just picked up a Varizoom VZ-Rock-PZFI for $255 at B&H. It's got a small focus knob, a smaller iris knob, a zoom paddle, and a record button.

The focus knob is certainly too small for most follow focus duties (it's about 1-1/8" in diameter, or 28mm), but I think it will be usable as such in a pinch. It has a markable white plastic inner surface, and a center line is painted on the body of the controller.

So far it seems like a great unit for the price.
 
Many HVX-200 users have commented that the grain on the HVX does look more filmic and less digital than on other similar cameras. I think Barry or someone might have even mentioned it in the Texas shootout when the HVX was first out.

I agree. I was looking at some S16 stock footage I shot years ago and had transfered to DBeta. I shot some ASA 200 daylight and some ASA 50 daylight. The 200 speed film was quite grainy although beautiful, the 50 speed (7245) was really nice but still showed more grain the HVX at 0dB.

Dan
 
I am using the Steadicam Pilot prototype this week with my HVX. I borrowed a Varizoom remote and it fit the gimbal. The zoom is easy to control. I will have access to the Varizoom remote again on Wednesday and will try to find a better way to attach the cable so it does not catch the stage when moving... I did not have a lot of time to wire it properly. I also did not get to test the focus or iris knob for ease of use on the gimbal.

I used the Pilot today with a small shotgun mic and fisheye lens on the HVX and it was a lot of fun to operate.
 
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