Connecting SD302 to TASCAM HD-P2

H

hazmattt

Member
Hi everyone, long time reader, first time poster :)

I just set up my first production sound rig using ALOT of information in the stickies, and I'm loving it very much. Here's what I have:

  • Tascam HDP2
  • SD 302
  • Sennheiser ME66/K6 (Rode shockmount, included foam windscreen)
  • Oktava MK012 (KSSM shockmount, Rycote BBG)
  • Sennheiser G2 (1 lav mic, transmitter/receiver)
  • Gitzo 10' boom pole
  • Petrol Deca Small bag
It's good enough to get me going. Here's my question:

I've heard some horror stories of people connecting the SD302 to HDP2 improperly, frying something. Something about HDP2 not having a 'real' line-type connection. What is the proper way to line out?

Is there anything else I should know about my rig too?

Thank you!

Matt
 
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The problem folks have encountered with the HD-P2 is that the XLR inputs are misleadingly labeled "Mic/Line" when, in fact, they are not designed to take line-in (not even with the -20dB pad).

The best thing to do is to take the 302's TAPE OUT/MIX OUT and connect it to the HD-P2's RCA line inputs. It'll require a custom cable that takes the TA3 connection to dual RCA. This won't take a very long cable run, so there's no fear of harming your signal by using an unbalanced connection.
 
C2V,

Where can I find this custom cable? Or do I need to make this myself?

Also, by running the signal from the 302 to HDP2's RCA line-in, would I then have to just adjust the levels on the 302's end, or do I still have control of the input on the HDP2?

Matt
 
hazmattt said:
Where can I find this custom cable? Or do I need to make this myself?
Click to expand...

You can easily make one yourself, if you're handy with a soldering iron. They can be custom ordered from most pro sound/broadcast supply stores.

hazmattt said:
Also, by running the signal from the 302 to HDP2's RCA line-in, would I then have to just adjust the levels on the 302's end, or do I still have control of the input on the HDP2?
Click to expand...

You'll still have control at every stop along the signal chain, but you need to learn how to gain stage and how to control levels properly. While you'll be able to set levels on the HD-P2, you'll set the Tascam's record levels using the 1kHz tone from the 302 and then leave it there. All other adjustments should come from the mixer.
 
I just want to toss this out, that your one of the few first time posters I've ever seen that actually reads the stickies, uses the information very well, and then has a logical question.

Well done. :beer:
 
Instead of using a special cable why not just attenutate the output of the SD 302? It is adjustable down from line to mic or something in between. The instructions are in the manual.
Best,
Bernie
 
If I attenuate the output, would I then be able to run a straight XLR cable from the 302 to HDP2?

I'm reading the manual right now, it's a bit fuzzy so far.
 
Yes, you can switch the 302's XLR outs to mic level and then connect to the HD-P2's XLR ins. At that point, you're sinding the signal through another pre-amp stage. Not that the Tascam's pre-amps are bad, but if one can avoid adding another pre-amp stage it's all the better.
 
C2V said:
Yes, you can switch the 302's XLR outs to mic level and then connect to the HD-P2's XLR ins. At that point, you're sinding the signal through another pre-amp stage. Not that the Tascam's pre-amps are bad, but if one can avoid adding another pre-amp stage it's all the better.
Click to expand...

The output level is incrementally adjustable (page 11 of the on line manual, also see page 22) so you could go with a hotter mic level to maximize the signal to noise of the Tascam preamps and then go straight xlr to xlr. If you want to go into the rca inputs you can set the output for that -10 level instead. For that you would need two xlr to rca cables. The xlr connection would be more secure but as stated above you would be going through the Tascam mic pres. Rca connections are not as secure but you could figure out a way to strain relief them so they don't come unplugged accidentally. I'd try both and see which one sounds the best and go with that.
Best,
Bernie
 
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So in your guys' experience, I would get a better signal flow by going out the Tape/Mix out via this TA3-RCA cable? I'd rather eliminate as many variables as I can while on set. I heard that RCA connections aren't as secure because it would be unbalanced, but at such a short cable length, it's not much of concern. I also have right-angle RCA adapters to reduce strain & save space.

What about the TA3 to XLR-M cables? Are those usable?

C2V said:
you'll set the Tascam's record levels using the 1kHz tone from the 302 and then leave it there. All other adjustments should come from the mixer
Click to expand...

So I set the 1 kHz tone, and level the HDP2 to say, -12 dB?
 
hazmattt said:
So in your guys' experience, I would get a better signal flow by going out the Tape/Mix out via this TA3-RCA cable? I'd rather eliminate as many variables as I can while on set. I heard that RCA connections aren't as secure because it would be unbalanced, but at such a short cable length, it's not much of concern. I also have right-angle RCA adapters to reduce strain & save space.

What about the TA3 to XLR-M cables? Are those usable?



So I set the 1 kHz tone, and level the HDP2 to say, -12 dB?
Click to expand...

Its all getting a little muddled: There are at least three ways to feed your Tascam.
One:
xlr to xlr. This would require attenuating the level of the 302 to mic level. You can set it to a "hot" mic level so you're using minimal gain on the mic pre of the Tascam thus increasing the signal to noise ratio. Advantage is you can use the xlr outs of the 302 and the Tascam xlr ins. Minor disadavantage running through the Tascam mic pres. If they're clean not too much of an issue, especially running a "hot' mic level signal.
Two:
The tape out TA3 on the 302 to the rca line ins of the Tascam. This would require a TA3 to stereo rca cable. The level of the TA3 is -15 and the rca input is likely -10. You might need a pad built into the cable. Advantage would be you would still have the xlr outputs of the 302 available to feed an addtional device. Down side is building/purchasing a special cable and rca jacks are not the most robust.
Three:
Attenuate the output of the 302 to -10 and use xlr to rca cables to go from the xlr outs of the 302 to the rca line ins of the Tascam. You would still need to purchase/build cables but they would be easier to make than the TA3 to dual rca.

Its up to you, there are no hard and fast rules so I would experiment and see what works well for your work flow. As to setting tone I see on the meter of the Tascam that there's a mark at the -12 mark and instinctively that's where you'd set your tone. If it were me I'd set it at -20 which is the standard for most digital devices including cameras. That gives you plenty of headroom and you'll more closely match the meters on the 302.
Bernie
 
The XLR to RCA connection sounds the safest bet then.

Will this only be in mono, however? Let's say, I have a boom and a 1 wireless connected to the 302, each one set to hard L and R. Could I still send it attenuated to the Tascam Line-In as 2 channel?

Edit: I just realized I could just run two individual XLR-RCA cables. Duh
 
hazmattt said:
So in your guys' experience, I would get a better signal flow by going out the Tape/Mix out via this TA3-RCA cable? I'd rather eliminate as many variables as I can while on set. I heard that RCA connections aren't as secure because it would be unbalanced, but at such a short cable length, it's not much of concern. I also have right-angle RCA adapters to reduce strain & save space.

What about the TA3 to XLR-M cables? Are those usable?



So I set the 1 kHz tone, and level the HDP2 to say, -12 dB?
Click to expand...

Set the 1kHz tone to either -18dBFS or -20dBFS on the recorder. The 302's limiters will kick in just in time to prevent clipping. If you go for tone at -12, the 302 could attempt the drive the recorder into clipping before the limiters, whose threshold is set to trigger when +18dBu is sent from the mixer main output by default, activate.

The TA3 output is a nominal -10dBv. The Tascam RCA inputs are a nominal consumer line level of -10dBv. Perfect match when using a TA3F->2RCA "Y" cable. (The +18dBu output on the 302's XLRs corresponds to about +6dBv on the TA3 output, a good match to the Tascam's rated 16dB heaadroom on the line inputs).
 
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Steve House said:
Set the 1kHz tone to either -18dBFS or -20dBFS on the recorder. The 302's limiters will kick in just in time to prevent clipping. If you go for tone at -12, the 302 could attempt the drive the recorder into clipping before the limiters, whose threshold is set to trigger when +18dBu is sent from the mixer main output by default, activate.

The TA3 output is a nominal -10dBv. The Tascam RCA inputs are a nominal consumer line level of -10dBv. Perfect match when using a TA3F->2RCA "Y" cable. (The +18dBu output on the 302's XLRs corresponds to about +6dBv on the TA3 output, a good match to the Tascam's rated 16dB heaadroom on the line inputs).
Click to expand...

Steve is -15 dBu the equivelant of -10 dBv? I ask because the SD 302 manual states -15 dBu for the TA3.
Bernie
 
berniebeaudry said:
Steve is -15 dBu the equivelant of -10 dBv? I ask because the SD 302 manual states -15 dBu for the TA3.
Bernie
Click to expand...
Good catch, my memory was faulty in thinking it was -10dBv. -10dBv is actually about -8dBu. Because 0VU is +4dBu, there's a 12dB difference in the consumer line versus the studio line when the signal is reading 0VU on an old-fashioned VU meter. -15dBu is -17dBv. The "dBu" and "dBv" are different sizes and have a different zero point as well.

Sound Devices says the maximum output level is +6dBu on the TA3 connector. Tascam says the clipping point of the RCA inputs is also +6dBu. So the nominal level difference not withstanding, the two are a good match.
 
I also caught the -15dBu in the manual.

Ok well apart from all of these numbers, would the TA3-2RCA signal flow work fine right off the bat, if I set the 302 to factory defaults?
 
hazmattt said:
I also caught the -15dBu in the manual.

Ok well apart from all of these numbers, would the TA3-2RCA signal flow work fine right off the bat, if I set the 302 to factory defaults?
Click to expand...
IMHO it would be just fine. Send tone from the mixer to the recorder, adjusting the recorder input controls to align it to -20dBFS on the recorder's meters.
 
Ok, I've seen a diagram somewhere on how to properly wire this custom cable? I tried the Search button on the top, but no dice.

What is the proper way to do this? I have a friend that has a soddering kit. Can I use the same RCA cable with the other end stripped off, or would a better wire gauge help?
 
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