Computer Specs for Editing 4k Footage?

cuervo said:
We're talkin' a terabyte per hour. So, if you're running RAID5, that's 2 terabytes per hour.
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Technically, RAID1 would be 2TB/hr. RAID5 requires 3+ drives and the amount of space you "lose" is relative to the number of drives. 3 drives loses around 33%, while 6 drives only loses around 18%.

Regardless, the file sizes of 4K RAW is quite unwieldy. I anticipate only using it for specialty projects that don't require a ton of footage (a well-planned music video that doesn't require 20 takes of full-song performance coverage). Then I would probably transcode the footage to ProRes for editing, then maybe drop $100 on an external to keep the RAW files around. Not the most elegant/reliable solution, but I think if I'm able to create high-quality 4K ProRes files from the RAW, that's good enough. Retaining the RAW files is just gravy after that. I certainly love that CD was able to get Sony to allow capturing the RAW, but the reality of the situation is that high bit-rate/depth compressed files are the best for workflow.
 
Hey just gonna ask a dumb question here... as I'm in the market for a new computer and have taken some of your advices here considering drive speed. Whats better, strictly performance / speed wise:

1) internal PCle SSD drive
2) external SSD thunderbolt drive like this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1041407-REG/lacie_9000477_little_big_disk_5tb.html
3) a thunderbolt Raid 5 like this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...s_promise_pegasus2_r_4_bay_4x2tb_t_bolt2.html

I mean, nevermind how much or how little storage you need to edit your project. I can factor that in myself. Just wonder which option is purely faster.

Thanks.
 
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A Pro version of H.265 will be helpful for 4K for a massive savings of disk space with high quality. For example, 4K 10-bit 422 at 200Mbps will look excellent with H.265's high efficiency.
 
My choice for editing is always large RAID5's. The security of RAID5 in case of hdw failure is peace of mind to me.

TB2 is very fast and so is TB1 even.

I never like to edit to an internal system drive, even if it is SSD. If the system disc has a problem your whole system goes down.

I am assuming that you are talking Mac here as you mention TB. With the new MPs your only choice is really external drives, so I suggest the biggest fastest, as in more drives, you can afford, RAID5 box or boxes.

I think the external SSD RAID is really meant for MBP use, and they are great for that, but at this time I think your biggest bang for the buck are the Promise or similar RAID5's out there.

On PC's or older MPs SAS RAIDS are really the fastest, there I like ATTO PCI cards/controllers and Promise SAS boxes. ATTO and Promise have never let me down for over a decade, actually ATTO more like 2.

I think ATTO may have some interesting TB products coming up at NAB, they have been sending me teasers.
 
Just as important as the raid you choose a good raid controller card can make all the difference in the world. Mobo raid is risky, Lsi and Areca is where I would start
 
Cool thanks guys. Yes Olof I just got myself a new Mac Pro. I'll invest in a Raid 5 as well.

Does a Promise Raid system come with a good Raid Controller Card? Or is it something else I have to worry about?

Thanks
 
Keep in mind that RAID5 is good in the event of a HDD failure but it is NOT a backup solution. Data corruption or a failed RAID controller could see you lose everything. As Josh mentioned earlier, drop $100 on an external HDD to store your RAW files.
 
Andrew Fowler said:
Keep in mind that RAID5 is good in the event of a HDD failure but it is NOT a backup solution. Data corruption or a failed RAID controller could see you lose everything. As Josh mentioned earlier, drop $100 on an external HDD to store your RAW files.
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So a full setup should have the NLE working off of assets from a Raid 5, and have a slower external HDD as a long term backup?

But I thought the Raid 5 already makes a copy of your files... if we are that concerned with the whole Raid 5 failing then why not use a thunderbolt external HDD as your working drive instead? Make that SSD if speed is an issue (though expensive...)
 
Fwiw I have an 8 drive (2tb each) 11TB total raid 6, some may disagree but I found using enterprise drives like WD re4 are more stable. They have a lower timeout readings, better vibration control etc. Raid6 offers great redundeancy but even still you must back everything up, I can withstand 2 drives taking a hit at once, my speeds around 680 Mb/s. It could be slightly faster using a raid5 plus you'll gain a little more drive space but once 1 drive goes you can't loose another one or it fails. For me we figured a raid6 was my best option. Any decent raid card will suffice, lsi, Areca, ATTO, stay away from the cheap ones. Good luck and enjoy your new machine.
 
chromeboy007 said:
Cool thanks guys. Yes Olof I just got myself a new Mac Pro. I'll invest in a Raid 5 as well.

Does a Promise Raid system come with a good Raid Controller Card? Or is it something else I have to worry about?

Thanks
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Pegasus2 systems come pre-configured straight out of the box—so you can just plug in and start using them, no need for a controller, SW is in the box. They come set to RAID5 but can use 6 or others as well.

It is always a good idea to have your data in at least 2 places, the main editing drives are what I use RAID5 for. Once projects are done I move them off the RAID to a couple HD's kept in different locations. Often clients have their own drives in my storage as well as one themselves (those are often lost).

Over the years I have never lost any data on a RAID5, I have had corrupted directories but DiscWarrior has always been able to fix this. I have had a number of individual drives die. When this happens I replace all of them if they are past their warranty, usually 3-5 years. If you configure your RAID with a "hot spare" then if one drive dies the RAID is rebuilt on the fly, just keep working, and replace the drive that died ASAP, this can be done while RAID is still used. Like I said if the drives are all at or past their Warranty period, then replace them all in the next few weeks.

After a shoot if I will edit the footage fairly soon I put it on the working RAID, but I also put it on 2 other drives stored in different locations, in case of fire. And I do the same with finished projects when appropriate. I never guarantee that data will not be lost to a client, and it is up to them to pay me for redundant storage, if they don't, then I just keep one BU.

We now have hundreds drives of stored footage, and lots of clients have drives themselves as well. Back in the days of tape we used the same principle, keep dupes in different locations just in case. This was much bulkier.

Now we just use good quality SATA drives w/o enclosures placed in a dock to transfer files. This is very inexpensive, compared to TB/FW/USB inclosed drives, and takes up little room.
 
any recommendation for 3,5 SATA hard drives?

It may have been very bad luck but I had 3 WD drives dying within the last 18months,
even though all within warranty but it scares me a little that all dead drives were WD
 
Clermond,

Lately the Seagate drives and Hitachi seem good. Don't get the "green" ones for fast storage. The enterprise ones are the best. You get what you pay for.

I have had good luck and bad with just about every brand of drive, different batches/models. But in general the Seagate Enterprise drives are very good.
 
I think, as a general rule, always get the enterprise drives, they're the most reliable. I've learned to be cautious with discount HD offers, even the enterprise drives. At one time, places like Newegg.com would sell discounted HD's that were not as reliable as the normally priced drives. Not sure if that's still true, but, a word to look out for discounted drives.
 
Ok one last question: just so that I'm clear on the setup you guys are recommending:

I should get one of these as a working drive: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...s_promise_pegasus2_r_4_bay_4x2tb_t_bolt2.html

And once the drives are full, I can cheaply purchase 2TB drives without the casing and swap them with the ones that came with the Pegasus. So the Raid 5 will forever be the working unit and I will just keep swapping the drives when they are full. Correct?

Thanks
 
No, you want to use the RAID5 to work from but keep a copy of your footage on a separate hard drive.

I Think Olof was suggesting temporarily connecting the separate hard drive to the sata cable in your computer to do the coy and then remove it and store it in another location in case of emergency.

Olof, correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers

Andrew
 
Andrew Fowler said:
No, you want to use the RAID5 to work from but keep a copy of your footage on a separate hard drive.

I Think Olof was suggesting temporarily connecting the separate hard drive to the sata cable in your computer to do the coy and then remove it and store it in another location in case of emergency.

Olof, correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers

Andrew
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Right I wasn't thinking straight.

Besides having 2 working copies in the Raid, make another copy and keep it somewhere. Once the projects in the Raid is done, the data in them is redundant and can be erased for new projects. I guess I can make myself another copy for double backup if I wanted. My main question is whether I should, and can, swap the drives from the Raid bay as they get filled up so I really only need one Raid unit and casing. I don't mind buying drive after drive, like this one: http://compare.ebay.ca/like/1712132...r&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&lpid=33&item_id=171213256650, but the casings are the expensive part.
 
The way RAID5 work is that it puts bits of your data across all disks. It then also puts the information on how to rebuild each of the disks across the other disks which is where you get your redundancy if one drive fails. This means that there is not 2 copies of your data in the RAID. It also means that each disk is useless if it is not part of the RAID.

Swapping disks will not give you any free space, it will just rebuild the data that was on the drive that you replaced.

Obviously, if you need to free up space you can delete footage from old, completed projects but again as Olof mentioned it is always best to have a copy as client will always lose thiers and come back to you down the track.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit.

Cheers

Andrew
 
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