commercial protocol

D

djembeplay

Well-known member
Hey everyone,

Well, that's it... I have made over 50 film shorts and have researched technology on this site for a year now... I want to start to learn how I can make a living at this. Well, actually, I do right now... I work with a national publishing company remotely. I have worked with them for about 8 months now and have made about 12 film shorts for them. This is my first paying gig. Business is starting to taper off with them though... so now my attention is back on wondering how I can make money again.

So, what I am wondering is... Is there a general business protocol / standard procedure / way things are done for... how do I word this... finding and developing accounts for commercial / advertising work?

I have all these cool ideas that come to mind for making short 30 second advertisements... Ideally, as this is the way my mind seems to work, I would like to approach a company / owner and say "hey... man... whats up. I have this cool idea for a commercial... I will make it for you for $10,000". I mean, obviously I am joking about the wording, but this is really the level I am at... I know nothing about how these things are done.

So, lets say I did pitch an idea to someone and they were interested... Is there a standard 'going rate' for how much to charge?

Also, how can I find these clients? Do I just call... say, Nike, and say... "Hello, no I am not protesting nor am I interested in buying shoes... can I please speak to the owner? Is Mr. Nike there behind the counter? I would like to make a commercial for him... for money".

I wish it were this simple. I just picture these huge companies who do advertisements for Nike... 100s of clean cut men in blue business suites sitting with perfect posture in front of typewriters in a large gymnasium, sorting through paperwork and legal disclaimers. What do you mean, distorted view?

Anyways, I think I have said enough for now. Soooooo, yaaa... it would be super cool... if... someone could... give me a... ... clue. Oh, and maybe a job. A job making a commercial... or something.

Thanks everyone-

Tejay
 
Commercials are usually written by advertising agencies who hire production companies to produce their commercial (s). Which production company gets picked is all about the director they have on their roster whose reel and execution ideas best suits the agencies vision. Perhaps you can get an internship with an advertising agency or commercial production company and learn how the real deal works.
 
So what if I just... went ahead and started working on a project on my own. Then, when I finished it, lets say it came out pretty cool... Now I have an already finished commercial to present to a company... How would they react?
 
Your concept would work for a mom and pop type business that doesn't have an advertising agency. Usually the local TV station does these commercials for free or ultra low budget in order to get the air buy. Just remember, mom and pop (like national companies) business's want to move product and services and could care less how creative the commercial is.They want results. Make your commercial results driven and well executed and this might work for you.
 
djembeplay said:
So what if I just... went ahead and started working on a project on my own. Then, when I finished it, lets say it came out pretty cool... Now I have an already finished commercial to present to a company... How would they react?
Click to expand...
This is called a "spec spot". While spec spots are good for honing your skills they are not a good source of income. If you're chomping at the bit to do commercials then make friends with the Ad agencies.

If you're lucky enough to get in with the agencies there's a good chance that a twenty year old girl that has no clue about what she's doing will be in charge of the job. Meaning, she will ask you to change the shot, font and/or color with absolutely no reason whatsoever other than she doesn't like it. The edit session you thought would take 2 days turns into 5 days. When you submit your invoice the AE calls and says that the extra days are not in the budget, but they promise more work in the future. So you eat the extra days and the cycle of abuse begins. The next edit session you order sushi for lunch because that's what the 6 agency reps sitting in your suite want for lunch. The art directior is pissed because he ordered yellow tail and they sent salmon instead, somehow it's your fault. At the end of a long session you're ready to go home at which point the copywriter asks, "Is it cocktail hour?". You open up your liquor cabinet and spend the next few hours telling jokes and pouring drinks. You wake up the next morning with a slight hangover and drive into work to start the process all over again. A few spots under your belt and a lot less hair on your head you ask yourself, "Why did I want to do commercials?".
 
Last edited:
Sounds like something I wouldn't want to get into. Thanks for the heads-up.

I am also wondering how the business scene works with Music Videos. What if I were to make a music video 'spec spot' on my own? How would I get it out there? All I can think is to contact a distributing company or self distribute... neither of which I would know how to go about anyways.

Thanks-
 
Did you look at the sticky thread at the top of this forum?
"How to get started and stay in the business"
Lots of solid information.
 
Bad commercials sell alot of good spots. The drag is, most of the bad ones (speaking locally) were done for free so it's very hard to talk small business owners into ponying up when all they have to puchase is airtime. The old "ya get what ya pay for" method will not work here. It's best to move on to regional spots. Car dealers are great because you can produce donuts then tag spots for different markets and get paid per dub. They are easy to sell too. It's as easy as showing the regional sales director your reel and agreeing on rates. They are seldom loyal to any one production company. Undercut the dude before you and you can most likely get a shot.
Natioal ads are far different. Big companies are the opposite. They have annual budgets they want to get next year so they do wanna spend every dime of it this year. This means they really do want to spend 500k for a 50k spot. They literally could not be happier about it. They'll brag about how much money they ran through and yu'll se it in pre-pro meetings, on the set and in the final product... a huge shuffling of money while a 5 figure spot is produced. Sign me up, man. This is where the moola is. Forget haggling with the locals. Call yourself an adagency, draw up a story board and multiply your budget by ten. They'll hear ya if you are expensive. They wont if ya aint.
I have pitched very viable, very affordable, very effective campaigns that were tossed aside because they didnt cost enough. Well they were used but the money went to a different agency with a zero added to the budget I pitched.
To answer your question, no there is no protocol. If there wre, of course we'd all be looking for sales people who didn't follow it. Thining outside the bix is as important when selling as it is with creative. Maybe more important. Afterall, if ya don't get the gig, ya can't really show your creativity.
 
Hey Grinner,

Wow, this is exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks for the insight.

So, in regards to the national level, what would happen in the scenario of me working on an artistic car commercial for a long time, and then presenting the finished product to a company? Would they laugh me out the door? Should I propose a high bid price?

In regards to a regional level, let's say I took my reel to a car company... who should I try to contact to set up a meeting? Also, I have a ton of work, but no commercials... think this will be bad?

Also, I am not sure what you mean by 'donuts' or 'tag spots'. Sorry, I'm an experienced artist but a green-horn businessman, so I am not savvy with some of the terminology.

Thanks again-
 
grinner said:
This means they really do want to spend 500k for a 50k spot. They literally could not be happier about it. They'll brag about how much money they ran through and yu'll se it in pre-pro meetings, on the set and in the final product... a huge shuffling of money while a 5 figure spot is produced. Sign me up, man. This is where the moola is. Forget haggling with the locals. Call yourself an adagency, draw up a story board and multiply your budget by ten. They'll hear ya if you are expensive. They wont if ya aint.
Click to expand...
If this sales strategy works then you're e-mailing this from your beach house in Maui right? Sounds like a mythical client. $50K that's not enough I demand that you charge me $500K! How's the ocean view Grinner?

Business is business. You have to learn to be competitive with the others in your market. Or you can hold your breath and wait for one of these magical clients. :2vrolijk_08::2vrolijk_08:
 
Here's my final advise. Milksac please chime in on this one. Go out and win a Heinz-type commercial contest. Then with the $50K winnings hire the best crew money will buy and produce 4 or so dazzling spec spots. Then hire a Hollywood PR firm that that will market you to all the high-end commercial production companies in L.A. Production companies are always looking for that "New Hot Director" that's cheap, that they can market to agencies who have a great (or not so great) idea but no money. Of course you'll be competing against a multitude of other people doing the same thing, so make your reel really stand out.
 
That's a plan that could work, if you have the talent and a little luck. I thought some of the runner ups in the Heinz contest were better than the winner. At any rate, even if you don't win you'll have the experience under your belt. Saying "Hey let me make your TV commercial" isn't a strategy. Having a kick a$$ reel and an rep working for you is a strategy.

djembeplay -
Did you post some of your work over on the Adobe forums? If that was your stuff it was solid. I think you might try hooking up some of the production companies in your area. Do some freelance motion design/editorial and get a feel for the business side of the industry - all on someone else's nickel. Then put a reel together so you can hunt down your own clients and start your own business.
 
Hey,

Nope, not my work you saw milksac... I don't think so at least...

Anyways... well, if I wanted to make a commercial for someone... where would you guys recommend going (besides entering a contest)?
 
milksac said:
How's the ocean view Grinner?

:2vrolijk_08::2vrolijk_08:
Click to expand...

awesome on a pretty day.

Right now, cold-calling and door to door are your options. Bring your best work, be ready to haggle and don't take no for an answer. Ya gotta start somewhere and you'll be competeing with the local tv stations that make commercials for free so your reel is your motivation here.
have fun, man.
 
milksac said:
A few spots under your belt and a lot less hair on your head you ask yourself, "Why did I want to do commercials?".
Click to expand...

Ouch. So sad how true that is. I've been in advertising (the creative side) for ten years and there's no truer words spoken. That's the reason I ponied up the cash for a short film... so I could be in control for once. No client. No hard sell. I begged my vendors for favors and they obliged. But still I sit here at work creating something cool only to have the client say "Make the logo bigger."

But, in all honesty, it's not always that bad. One of the production companies we use (which also co-produced my short) does a lot of the bill-paying work that they cringe watching, but they also get some sweet stuff where the client allows them to do what they paid them to do: make a good commercial. For every five annoying clients, there's one good one.
 
milksac said:
If this sales strategy works then you're e-mailing this from your beach house in Maui right? Sounds like a mythical client. $50K that's not enough I demand that you charge me $500K! How's the ocean view Grinner?

Business is business. You have to learn to be competitive with the others in your market. Or you can hold your breath and wait for one of these magical clients. :2vrolijk_08::2vrolijk_08:
Click to expand...

Seriously, sometimes this is the truth. I work with a lady who does graphic design. She has a non-profit rate and a corporate rate, and her corporate rate is just her non-profit rate times 10.

It's like expensive cars. After a certain price, the amount that you're paying sort of becomes part of the package. A lamborghini costs 500,000 dollars because people who want lamborghinis can PAY 500,000 dollars. People who can't pay the money don't have the car, so you're sort of elevated to a status level just based on how much money you're willing to throw at something.

The same exists at ad agencies. My girl is working now on a spot that's 1.5 mil. that's half a million dollars every 10 seconds of commercial. They bring up whichever RIAA-owned song happens to be on the top of their head and get quotes for it. Then they try to pick between the lists and generally err for whichever is the most expensive.

Why? Because it's not their money. They're not paying to use a Rolling Stones song in the spot, the company is, they just think it's worth the money and they have no emotional attachment to the company's budget, so who cares? When you get the ear of a mega-company, they can buy and sell a billion dollars in a day, and when people aren't attached to the money they're spending, when you can't even dent their budget, then they'll just pay for the most expensive and call it a day.

When you say "50k for that spot? I won't pay any less than 500k!" YES, it does happen, and more often than you think.
 
Just as an aside, here's another example. I'm working on the pilot for a TV show, and the producer and director are friends from way back. So they asked me to put together a crew and equipment proposal to do the whole thing and asked me to give them the best rates I could manage since they'd already been taken for a ride by another production company and were running out of money.

I got 4 cam ops with their own HVXs for rock bottom, all people I've worked with who agreed to give me the rate because of how well we know each other. The producers argued with me over whether or not it was a good enough camera (they've never worked with HD before, only broadcast but didn't like its size) and I told them the number of movies it's been used on, the features I've worked on with it, the shorts, the music videos, what's been playing that they've seen that was shot with it. And you know what they did? Just last night they sent me a list of equipment they went ahead and rented - 4 panasonic HDX 900s, lenses, multicam switchers, decks, tape stock, etc. They're paying 10x the rate that I gave them just for the cameras.

Yeah, sometimes if you give people too good of a deal, they'll think you're not worth it. Now I'm stuck firing half the crew they decided they didn't need and figuring out what to do with the camera operators, none of which have worked with this camera before. If I hadn't asked the crew to work for me, I would walk out on the project right now, but alas there's some good people looking for some paychecks on it.
 
there are two things happening here:
1. the old mantality of ya get what you pay for. Very valid to this day.
2. Annual budgets HAVE to be speant to be approved for the next year. ALL corporate dudes in charge of these WANT to spend every last peeny in this budget or it will be cut next year and they are not gonna have that.

don't lowball. You are only hurting yourself. If you have an advantage of knowing a bid or rate from another company, I suggest matching it or exceeding it. Getting a gig for being the cheapest in town is less profitable than getting a gig for being the best in town.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top