Paul Isaacs
Active member
Could you inadvertently be set to the ProRes Proxy 36Mbps rate?PaulSound Devices
Colossal PIX240 issue with ProRes 422
- Thread starter truelife
- Start date
No- I set the PIX to record what the camera was sending. As a secondary test, I set it to record ProRes 1080p/23.976. Isn't it possible that it is a faulty unit?
Hi
Any solution to this problem? We seem to be having a similar issue on 2 different Pix 240's but with all Codecs. latest firmware on the Pix's and Sony F3's here are 2 screen shots. the one labeled sxs is off the internal camera sxs record. the other is the Pix. Both are magnified to highlight the issue. this is visible at 100% though in an NLE and on the monitor output direct from the PIX over SDI. Visible only after a record to the PIX. HDSDI from A port on F3 is clean. Again this is on two different PIX's ...Thoughts?
Thanks in advance. and I do have a support ticket in at SD.
Taylor
SXS
PIX
Any solution to this problem? We seem to be having a similar issue on 2 different Pix 240's but with all Codecs. latest firmware on the Pix's and Sony F3's here are 2 screen shots. the one labeled sxs is off the internal camera sxs record. the other is the Pix. Both are magnified to highlight the issue. this is visible at 100% though in an NLE and on the monitor output direct from the PIX over SDI. Visible only after a record to the PIX. HDSDI from A port on F3 is clean. Again this is on two different PIX's ...Thoughts?
Thanks in advance. and I do have a support ticket in at SD.
Taylor
SXS
PIX
Yikes. Wondering what the issue is. I would've said it was the F3 that was the common issue here, except of course I tested on my EX3 as well. Out of curiosity, what batch did you get your PIX in? In other words, when did you take delivery? Mine was in early November. I'm curious if some of the really early models have a similar issue. Very concerning.
Per Sound Devices (who definitely have some of the best personalized support in the biz) they said they had never seen an issue like mine before and needed to get the unit in for analysis. They have shipped me a loaner unit in the meantime which I will be testing this week. I assume they will swap the boards or entire unit out altogether if they can't find the problem.
Since I experienced the issue on both F3 firmware 1.2 and 1.31, I'm wondering as a long shot, if the problem exists even on the 1.1 firmware? Let me know what you find- I'm still baffled.
I received my loaner unit from Sound Devices this evening and began testing with the F3. However, I was dismayed to learn that the issue I experienced with my PIX persisted across both 23.98 and 29.97 framerates. I would say this indicates an issue with my camera except for the odd fact that the issue happened with my EX3 as well.
Can people verify their settings for shooting with the PIX? Output A + internal camera settings? I can't imagine that anything would be set wrong as I've shot 6 productions with the PIX before now, but this seems very odd. I thought that perhaps the Sony record flag might have some impact, but seems unlikely...
Can people verify their settings for shooting with the PIX? Output A + internal camera settings? I can't imagine that anything would be set wrong as I've shot 6 productions with the PIX before now, but this seems very odd. I thought that perhaps the Sony record flag might have some impact, but seems unlikely...
Just to check... are you using 75ohm BNC cables to connect your camera's to the PIX?
The 75ohm BNC connectors don't normally have the white plastic circle inside, but are metal instead.
(don't wish to teach granny... but it's easy to inadvertently be using 50ohm cables and I have heard this can cause issues with some SDI recorders)
The 75ohm BNC connectors don't normally have the white plastic circle inside, but are metal instead.
(don't wish to teach granny... but it's easy to inadvertently be using 50ohm cables and I have heard this can cause issues with some SDI recorders)
Yes I think so- all the cables I used were purchased from HAVE who lists their cables as 75ohm. Also- these are the same cables I used before I had the issue. I'm beginning to think that perhaps select F3 firmware causes errors, but really not sure...
Just wanted to follow up on my issue detailed earlier in this thread. Sent my PIX to SD and they graciously sent me a loaner. After initial testing with the loaner I thought I saw the issue but couldn't be sure. Today after using the unit in a real world shoot situation with S-log, shooting at 23.98, I saw the same problem manifest. Footage had crazy lines and shimmer in the dark parts of the frame. Spoke to SD and the acknowledged that there is in fact an issue that they still consider rare, that manifests using certain hardware and settings, though they couldn't verify specifics. They said they will be releasing a firmware update soon. Meanwhile, I hope my footage shot to SxS using S-log will be grade-able as I know this isn't an optimal setup. I used a REC709 (180) LUT. Footage looks pretty good but still a bit concerned...
It looks like you're missing a field- or rather it records a half of the resolution, as your format is 23.976p.
This can suggest format issue: 23.976p v. 23.976psf. 23.976p is full frame progressive data sent/recorded as full frame- 23.976psf is full frame, but recorded/sent at 2 fields with no time offset. It looks like one device thinks that your format is 23.976p , other 23.976psf- so at the end you have recorded half of the information/resolution.
I may be wrong, but it looks lie this can be the issue, by looking at your grabs.
Yes I gather this is what SD will be trying to fix in their next firmware- otherwise I won't be able to use the unit.
I think you are on the noses here... There is something just not right with the PIX when it is getting PsF signal from my F3...Glad to hear there may be a fix in the works
This is no limited, rare issue. We just ran into it on a shoot using a rented Pix240, our F3 and the DNXHD codec, recording to 1080p at 23.97. It is all over the footage in some very important scenes. This is the way reputations are ruined.
We had to regress to the footage backed up on the SxS cards, which is less than ideal.
Shocking! Disappointing. The recorder used 1.02 firmware. I am very un-happy to hear this is still a problem with the 1.05 software and will promptly cancel our order to buy one and consider other options like the KiPro Mini. Which we have not seen the issue with.
This is a huge issue with s-log due to its gamma curve which underexposes by design.
As a professional who has been doing this since 1989 I am absolutely appalled that gear as such could make it to market. This is happening more and more frequently from all manufacturers.
Sound Devices is a highly respected company and we own some of their great audio gear. Perhaps they don't have a handle on video gear.
This is a major issue which they must escalate. I am available to send their tech support screen shots if they wish to contact me directly.
This is a major shame.
We had to regress to the footage backed up on the SxS cards, which is less than ideal.
Shocking! Disappointing. The recorder used 1.02 firmware. I am very un-happy to hear this is still a problem with the 1.05 software and will promptly cancel our order to buy one and consider other options like the KiPro Mini. Which we have not seen the issue with.
This is a huge issue with s-log due to its gamma curve which underexposes by design.
As a professional who has been doing this since 1989 I am absolutely appalled that gear as such could make it to market. This is happening more and more frequently from all manufacturers.
Sound Devices is a highly respected company and we own some of their great audio gear. Perhaps they don't have a handle on video gear.
This is a major issue which they must escalate. I am available to send their tech support screen shots if they wish to contact me directly.
This is a major shame.
I've been screaming about this for years. The software industry forced "service packs", version 1.X and upgrades on us, and that mentality has seeped into every other company. Then they make you pay for a service agreement so you can trouble shoot their BS product line for them, so they can charge you for the upgrade that fixes it....
Well tech support is aware but it is a shame that some of the units weren't ready for primetime. I will say that Sound Devices is a very solid company and will make it right.
Try 60i, 50i format than and check if you end up with similar problems.
Does it happen always?
There may be an issue where one device is not booted etc.
Try to turn on camera connect PIX, switch it to 23.976psf, turn it off and on again ( I don't know if it keeps last setting, but assume it does).
Note- HD-SDI is psf, where HDMI is p and won't work with psf (at least in most hardware).
Paul Isaacs
Active member
Truelife and All
Your concerns are taken seriously - the issues raised here are currently being investigated as a matter of high priority and an update will be made available once a solution is found.
With regards to the Sony PsF output issue, whilst we are looking for the solution, here is a possible workaround:
- In the F3's [Video Set/23.98p Output] menu, set to 1080i59.94 (2-3 pulldown).
- Then on PIX, apply a 2-3 pulldown removal by setting the PIX file resolution/rate to 1080p23.976. This removes the 2-3 cadence in real-time. The resulting recording will be true 1080p23.976.
With regards to the DNxHD issue in v1.02, this was fixed in v1.05 which has been available since December 2011 and is available on the Sound Devices website.
Paul Isaacs
Technical Development Manager
Sound Devices
Your concerns are taken seriously - the issues raised here are currently being investigated as a matter of high priority and an update will be made available once a solution is found.
With regards to the Sony PsF output issue, whilst we are looking for the solution, here is a possible workaround:
- In the F3's [Video Set/23.98p Output] menu, set to 1080i59.94 (2-3 pulldown).
- Then on PIX, apply a 2-3 pulldown removal by setting the PIX file resolution/rate to 1080p23.976. This removes the 2-3 cadence in real-time. The resulting recording will be true 1080p23.976.
With regards to the DNxHD issue in v1.02, this was fixed in v1.05 which has been available since December 2011 and is available on the Sound Devices website.
Paul Isaacs
Technical Development Manager
Sound Devices
eddavid
Carbonite Member
Sound Devices is a damn solid company - this is their first foray into video. It's a whole new world.
When you are an early adopter, that's the gamble you make - this is true for all technology. Do tests. You always need to do tests. I heard a rumor that even the Nanoflash when it first came out was full of bugs and now that thing is more rock stable than most cameras. This is the agreement you have with a piece of technology as a pioneer - you are gambling. Gambling to make a better image for less money.
I don't quite understand how a company makes a product and then releases it - until then, I won't complain - I'll just be prepared for this. For instance, I think if I was to buy a Red Scarlett I would be prepared for all the little quirks that may come from it.
When you are an early adopter, that's the gamble you make - this is true for all technology. Do tests. You always need to do tests. I heard a rumor that even the Nanoflash when it first came out was full of bugs and now that thing is more rock stable than most cameras. This is the agreement you have with a piece of technology as a pioneer - you are gambling. Gambling to make a better image for less money.
I don't quite understand how a company makes a product and then releases it - until then, I won't complain - I'll just be prepared for this. For instance, I think if I was to buy a Red Scarlett I would be prepared for all the little quirks that may come from it.
Wanted to suggest the same 23.976+pulldown, but did not know that PIX can remove pulldown. If it can than this is simple/good workaround until 23.976p is fixed.
Just read this thread and glad I did. I rented a PIX240 a couple of weeks ago and had exactly the same problems. Tried every combination of cables/settings/etc without luck. I had another external recorder to test at the same time (Cinedeck) and had no problems from any of the SDI outputs on the F3.
The original poster claimed macroblocking with v 1.05 firmware. Although he was using ProRes. This still concerns me as we are ready to purchase a unit and have just had a complete shoot to the pix240 rendered useless because of the issue. We are now forced to edit from our back up media and do additional noise reduction on the xdcam material. Since this is s-log material it is a bigger issue.
We will be recording to DnxHD. But these sorts of crippling quality issues are of great concern. Since I am not an engineer I dont know if there could be an issue upstream of the codecs that would affect all output.
I am sure that Sound Devices thought the devices would be free of these sorts of defects on initial release, just as they are sure of it now. But fool me once...