If I'm shooting something in a grocery store where everything is flourscent lighting (I'm guessing it is, unless it's halogen), what color temperature settings should I be using and are there any other settings I should know to change when shooting in that kind of lighting? Thanks in advance for any advice I might get.
Color Temperature Settings for Flourescent Lights
- Thread starter Krunko
- Start date
There is a cam scene file for this.
Joshua Provost
Veteran
Krunko said:
Fluorescent lights come in a variety of color temperatures. It's actually highly unlikely that the flos in a grocery store will exactly match either of the presets. You may just have to manually white balance, or switch to whatever preset appears closer and be prepared to color correct in post.
There is a color matrix for fluorsecent lights that you can set in any scene file. It tries to inhibit certain color spikes in cheap flos, but you never know what kind of flos you will be dealing with in the grocery store.
TedRR
Well-known member
We spent 7 years shooting for a Grocery Chain here in California. Store shoots were the most common and most challenging.
The trick isn't so much setting your camera to match the lights. It's more about knowing how to "Paint" and "Blend" the sources and camera with effective white balancing.
We regularly had to blend outdoor blue from HUGE windows near the registers with green from fluorescents and warmth from our lighting.
My lighting director who spent 10 years working on most major films in LA was amazed with my ability to "Paint" the camera/set for a pleasant warm look.
The #1 key is white balancing to the ambient light. Do this NOT by pointing the white card AT the camera, but rather angled at the light source. Think of angling a pool ball's ricochet from lens to light source.
When multiple sources are spilling on set which is way too common, make sure and average the amount of spill from the sources on the white card and then balance. A monitor is important until you master this and even after, it's strongly suggested.
One trick I use for that warmer look is average all sources on your white card. But turn off or aim away 25% to 75% of your lights before you balance. Then re-direct your lights on set and adjust if needed.
Another suggestion is to have a large, i.e. 3' X 4' clean foam board for balancing on a big set. You can't always get enough spill averaging on the typical 8" X 10" card.
The real trick is to learn how to see the different colors with your eyes and understand how light can spill from many sources including shiny floors, white counters etc. Practice in impossible situations and after a while you can paint any scene to achieve any look with your white balance. It's a great tool in making your scene look awesome when you can't control the entire set. Which is what most of us face every day!
Let us know how it goes.
The trick isn't so much setting your camera to match the lights. It's more about knowing how to "Paint" and "Blend" the sources and camera with effective white balancing.
We regularly had to blend outdoor blue from HUGE windows near the registers with green from fluorescents and warmth from our lighting.
My lighting director who spent 10 years working on most major films in LA was amazed with my ability to "Paint" the camera/set for a pleasant warm look.
The #1 key is white balancing to the ambient light. Do this NOT by pointing the white card AT the camera, but rather angled at the light source. Think of angling a pool ball's ricochet from lens to light source.
When multiple sources are spilling on set which is way too common, make sure and average the amount of spill from the sources on the white card and then balance. A monitor is important until you master this and even after, it's strongly suggested.
One trick I use for that warmer look is average all sources on your white card. But turn off or aim away 25% to 75% of your lights before you balance. Then re-direct your lights on set and adjust if needed.
Another suggestion is to have a large, i.e. 3' X 4' clean foam board for balancing on a big set. You can't always get enough spill averaging on the typical 8" X 10" card.
The real trick is to learn how to see the different colors with your eyes and understand how light can spill from many sources including shiny floors, white counters etc. Practice in impossible situations and after a while you can paint any scene to achieve any look with your white balance. It's a great tool in making your scene look awesome when you can't control the entire set. Which is what most of us face every day!
Let us know how it goes.
GrindedDown
Member
I could be very wrong with this, but I think another way to do this would be to balance for outdoor light (5600K) because fluorescents run (I am not sure) between 4400K and 4800K, with green spikes in the light. I would use Tungsten lights to add mild warmth to the scene (a supermarket is usually a friendly and wam place) and dress all of the lights with 1/4 plusgreen gels. Then thie balance to daylight. White balancing with the plusgreen gels will eliminate a lot of the green color being drawn from the fluorescents.
If you do not want a warm look to the market and would rather have a neutral white look, use HMI's, dress them witht he gels the same, and still balance for daylight. You may need to add 1/8 or 1/4 CTO gels to the HMIs. This is because you are balancing for daylight, but the primary source of light is around 4400K, so because of this temp difference, you will get a mildly warm look. After all of your lighting is setup and gelled, then white balance. Although you can try White balancing periodically to check any progress being made, but also balance after setup.
I am not sure if this is right or not, but it may help. If it is wrong, please let me know, how else will I learn.
If you do not want a warm look to the market and would rather have a neutral white look, use HMI's, dress them witht he gels the same, and still balance for daylight. You may need to add 1/8 or 1/4 CTO gels to the HMIs. This is because you are balancing for daylight, but the primary source of light is around 4400K, so because of this temp difference, you will get a mildly warm look. After all of your lighting is setup and gelled, then white balance. Although you can try White balancing periodically to check any progress being made, but also balance after setup.
I am not sure if this is right or not, but it may help. If it is wrong, please let me know, how else will I learn.
TedRR
Well-known member
Sumfun said:
We use 3200k lights of all wattages and types. Mostly 1k and 500-600 and usually with toughspun or some other difusion.
As mentioned, if you have 80% outdoor, (blue) light then add 1/4 to 1 full dayblue gells to your 3200k lights.
If you have 80% fluorescents then add 1/4 to 1/2 green. Don't ever be afraid to throw a single difused ungelled source on the talent after balancing though. You can "almost" never make the talent too warm. Just don't go stupidly far from the rest of the set or it will look odd.
So much to tell you, so little fingers. :beer: This is just an overview and nothing is set in stone. Remember that.
Good luck.
The majority of fluorescents I come across are tungsten balanced (roughly), and filling tungsten works quite well. Every now and then I come across colder ones, and maybe this is something that is different in other parts of the world?GrindedDown said:
Personally, I'd avoid mixing different colour temperatures as much as possible, and often turn off lights to avoid a mix - inevitably the sources will otherwise come from different directions and cause strange colour shadows. That may then restrict which direction you can shoot, but that seems the lesser of two evils. Alternatively, restrict shooting to parts where there is no daylight, or screen windows off.
If it's a big enough shoot, you may also consider swapping the tubes for ones with a different balance to solve such a problem. Could be a lot of work though.
Yes - assuming you have the time/resources to do a swap. I'm working on the assumption that what is there anyway will most likely be tungsten, you may be lucky and find they are daylight balance anyway.Sumfun said:
The problem is when the fluorescent light is mainly from one direction, daylight from another, and you inevitably get coloured shadows, which look bad on faces.
I thought I would throw in my two cents, and I was going to address your Daylight Flouro Question. There are a ton of Off-the-shelf Daylight flouro bulbs out there. Most will tell you right on the package what temperature they are. I find that many are aroun 6200k. These will not usually match up to REAL daylight depending on what time of day your shooting at. Most stores will not spend the money for Daylight bulbs in mass quantitys, I probably would not worry too much about them having them installed. (but beware, I took that for granted ond\ce the place did) The other reason most stores wont use them is that they give a very Sterile look to the entire place. I worked at a Micro Center once, we toyed with Daylight Bulbs in the Systems Sales room. People dont like to shop under bright daylight. We lost alot of money after installing them. (I wont go into that here but it was incredibly interesting)Sumfun said:
The other two people here have it right on the head. Follow what they say. If you buy daylight flouro's off the shelf at a home center or a supercenter, , it will take an awful lot of them to give you enough light to do some damage, secondly, you will most likely be introducing "yet another color spectrum" into the already chotic mix of light molecules.
MagicCat
I had a pain in my foot once, I told the doctor how much it hurt when I tried to run instead of walking. Expecting to have to get xrays, scans or drugs to keep that from happening, He just gave me some advise, "dont do that". It worked. Dont over think it.
Sidney Tawl
Member
What you are looking for is the CRI (color rendition index) NUMBER for the bulb. 100 is perfect. 97 and up is real good. You can buy off the shelf with 97 for less that 10 bucks RETAIL. 4 footers.
Kinos are special made with special price.
Ted Ruiz, LOL, long time. You may remember me as "View askew" ahhh, Ted, Stu, View, "joe" and Joe 2, Jim, ahh those were the days of Bulleting boards ehhh Ted.
Have you finally given up on the "box". Don't tell me you paid to upgrade to the HD version errr, if they have it.
Check the CRI on the bulb in the store, but it will not be good. Most stores use el cheapo 50 cent bulbs and they tend to be very green. They don't REPRODUCE the whole spectrum. Thats why you need a bulb with a high CRI it reproduces color and the range of color, higher CRI better color rendition.
Kinos are special made with special price.
Ted Ruiz, LOL, long time. You may remember me as "View askew" ahhh, Ted, Stu, View, "joe" and Joe 2, Jim, ahh those were the days of Bulleting boards ehhh Ted.
Have you finally given up on the "box". Don't tell me you paid to upgrade to the HD version errr, if they have it.
Check the CRI on the bulb in the store, but it will not be good. Most stores use el cheapo 50 cent bulbs and they tend to be very green. They don't REPRODUCE the whole spectrum. Thats why you need a bulb with a high CRI it reproduces color and the range of color, higher CRI better color rendition.
TedRR
Well-known member
Sidney Tawl said:
Howdy, funny how I keep meeting some of the "old timers" on various forums.
The only one who has not shown his face is Joe/joe, which is fine by me and many others. Maybe he's messed with the wrong person/persons. :beer:
I've moved on to NewTek's VT and SpeedEdit systems. 3 of each and it's going very well for us.
Glad to see you around. Did you get the HVX? Great for our merge to HD.
I'll watch for you in these parts.
Oh yeh, I have two of the old boxes. THey haven't changed much in 3 years.