clapper/slate question

S

schmolze

Active member
hi.

wondering if it's necessary to use a slate when shooting digitally, or if if it's mainly designed for synching sound purposes.

also, what is a good shooting method in tandem with the clapper. do you guys keep a detailed log of each shot, and either write down to keep or scrap a certain take?

maybe some sort of book that explains how to use a clapper correctly?

sorry to be a dolt.

peace -
 
Re: clapper/slate question

Nothing dolty about it!  It is a good question, and now that digital video and HDTV are real alternatives to film, slates are tools that again help the editor immensely!

Slates serve[d] two purposes: they gave motion picture double-system productions an easy way to sync the otherwise wild audio; provided an easily recognizable way for the editor to find the beginning and end of takes along with all the data pertinent to how the scene was shot.

So, both of these needs often translate to modern digital cinematography.  

More and more digitally-acquired productions use double-system sound - especially when mixing down multiple wireless units to a single DAT or 1/4" audio system.  Having a slate - especially one that displays time-code - that is jam-synced to each camera really can ease edits for single camera and multiple camera shows alike.

Simply used as a marker at the head (clapped right-side up) or tail of a scene (upside-down), the slate offers vital camera information to the editor.  We should all get in the habit of recording: scene number, take, camera type, frame rate, filters - even lenses if you're shooting with a DOF converter!

There are many other industry standard tricks - like leaving the slate arm open while physically calling the scene and take and angle letter into a mic for scenes that otherwise do not feature sound - MOS (Mit Out Sound).

Maybe an accomplished 1st assistant can chime in with more advice?

Cheers,

e
 
Re: clapper/slate question

I think overland said it perfectly. A slate can certainly have a place in video production. Although we use slate exclusivley for our film shoots. For video I usually have an assistant taking log notes using the time code. The DVX is great for this because you can fold the LCD into the body so the assistant can read TC and the DP can still look through the viewfinder.
 
Re: clapper/slate question

cgrosso74,

Well said on the logging of footage. We are really bad about live logging around here - ended up doing all logging after the fact on our last documentary.

On commercials, features or even music videos, where set-ups usually take longer, logging should be an important part of the production process. The 2nd assistant or a competent PA can help in this role with only a little bit of on-set training and supervision.

Not logging on our documentary delayed the whole post-production process significantly.

:-[

A single-camera digital feature will have much more time (and personnel) that can be dedicated to logging marks in and out on-set. Good luck!

e
 
Re: clapper/slate question

so bottom line is that a clapper is not ncessary on single camera, single audio track productions?
 
Re: clapper/slate question

[quote author=schmolze link=board=Events;num=1108143761;start=0#4 date=02/11/05 at 13:31:19]so bottom line is that a clapper is not ncessary on single camera, single audio track productions?[/quote]

Maybe not a clapper, since you don't have to sync sound, but a slate with all the info mentioned above will help immensely with the editing process... If nothing else to help the editor know what the heck they're looking at!
 
Re: clapper/slate question

In narrative/fiction productions a slate is very much still important for all the reasons mentioned above.

I will say add in many docs/cinema verte films you should forgo clapper if the situation demands it (ie you don't want to put your subjects on edge). This is where detailed log notes make synching sound in post possible.
 
Re: clapper/slate question

i've only used a slate with one group i worked with and it was kind of nice to have the info, especially when they had a spare person to write down all the timecodes and scene info.

i have the slate mentioned above that doesn't have the clapper and is designed specifically for tape not film. works great.

i also just got the gretag macbeth color chart, it has all these wonderful color chips for color correction, espectially black, white and 4 shades between.

matthew
 
Re: clapper/slate question

All great info. Except one small detail by Overland. On MOS slates (no sound) You keep the sticks closed. This way it does not look like the sticks are about to open or close to confuse the editor when fast forwarding through shots.
Another thing that I use as a crossover from film is report sheets. I have made my own up very similar to the ones used in film. They record time code, what take and scene, roll number, project, what is recorded on each sound track, and space for any other notes. They help tremendously, although my assistants find them a bit of a pain in the but.
 
Re: clapper/slate question

Just to let you know why to use a slate.. the last feature I shot with the Sony 900 HD camera we shot sound to Tape and to Dat.. something happened to the line back to the camera, and the camera audio was screwed. Not having a sync box to the Dat deck.. it would of been hell trying to resolve the audio to picture without the good old clapper.

I like to always use a clapper anyways.. and frame up before you hit record so when you pull your shots into your NLE each segment will be thumbnailed with the scene number so you know what exactly is which.
 
Re: clapper/slate question

"The DVX is great for this because you can fold the LCD into the body so the assistant can read TC and the DP can still look through the viewfinder. "
A day without learning something is a day wasted! 'Couse I didnt know that :o :-[
 
Re: clapper/slate question

great idea with flipping the screen out. so ingenious. It's also great to flip out and fold in when dollying... that's already obvious to those who have used a dolly tho i'm sure. but when i figured it out, i thought it was pretty nifty.

i love the dvx. if i were an electronic, i'd marry my dvx. what?!?!
 
Re: clapper/slate question

You know I was given a real good slate as a gift (along with a Director's chair, and a ton of books from the NYU bookstore) from my gal after I decided to "make movies".  The chair and the slate (a clapper) were, well not really gag gifts, but humorous gifts meant to "inspire".  I used the slate the other day for the first time while shooting a bunch of test footage.  I was going to stop doing it because it was sort of a pain in the ass and I didn't really think it was necessary - was I wrong.  Once you get to the NLE these things are a God send (and Wendy ain't too bad either).

Matt
 
Re: clapper/slate question

[quote author=Prairieboy link=board=Events;num=1108143761;start=0#11 date=02/11/05 at 21:55:45]All great info.  Except one small detail by Overland.  On MOS slates (no sound)  You keep the sticks closed.  This way it does not look like the sticks are about to open or close to confuse the editor when fast forwarding through shots.[/quote]

Actually I've seen both done on professional shoots. They're just conventions. With the clapper open convention, the clapperloader would either hold the board by hanging it from the clapper arm or hold it with his/her fingers in the gap to make it clear that there was no intention of clapping it. Which convention you use doesn't matter as long as you're consistent through the shoot and your intention is clear. Any editor will work out which convention you're using after the first MOS shot they come across in the rushes. I'm from the UK, so maybe there's a stricter convention across the Atlantic!

Another tip: If your shot is very tight, and you don't have a mini-clapperboard, you can avoid zooming out and losing your framing just for the board, by moving the board slowly across the frame, but make sure the camera operator can see the clapper part when you do the clap. The editor can easily advance frame by frame to read the slate details. Saves a bit of time messing around reframing for the actual take. :-)
 
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