Cion test footage

Nice right up Karl and I really enjoy your blog. It's going to be interesting to see how AJA handles the criticism this camera is getting, as well as it's perceived shortfalls perhaps thru firmware upgrades etc. I really don't find the image displeasing.
 
I demoed one also. I found that the difference in image quality was drastic after I upgraded the firmware; before the update, the shadows were very noisy, and highlights looked pretty unpleasant. After the upgrade, the images looked worlds better; much less noise, and much more pleasing color. Also, I wasn't able to record in 12-bit ProRes before I updated the firmware.

https://app.nimia.com/video/305185/seascape-sunset-olympic-mountains-puget-sound-alki
 
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Thanks for the comments Cinebuddy.

I received the Cion on June 16, and according to AJA it had the latest firmware.

I do think continued refinement and firmware upgrades will get the Cion up to speed. The problem is time- too little too late perhaps? The competition is tough and very fast moving- AJA needs to be fully committed and all in. Just look at Black Magic Design and Samsung. How many firmware updates has the NX1 received? Rumor has it that they contacted the Magic Lantern group to speed video development. To me that's aggressive commitment to the marketplace.
 
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My experience with their reps has been mixed. At NAB the few who weren't crammed up with visitors were willing to talk to me, but they were mostly not AJA staff, so they didn't really know that much beyond what was already public. At the post-NAB roadshow in Seattle, there was a much smaller crowd so the AJA rep was able to talk to people, but he was clearly new to cinematography in general; one person asked what frame rate the camera was set to, and the rep said "1080p" apparently just confused.

The local vendor has been great, when they're available (as far as I can tell, the staff of the Seattle office is only three people, so they're often tied up and hard to get in touch with, but it usually I get replies to e-mails in reasonable amounts of time).

The demo they loaned me was their own camera, and it didn't have the latest firmware installed. I suspect that they hadn't had time to check, since they hadn't even had time to play with the camera.

It seems like AJA is committed to the Cion, but they're also very quiet and don't talk much, so that impression is based mostly on my interactions with AJA vendors like Borrowlenses and Keycode and B&H. I get the impression from the Vimeo Cion group that most of the people currently using Cions are doing so through the #TryCion program, so most of what's up on Vimeo that's shot on Cion is just test footage, not interesting footage, but there are a few nice looking actual videos on there.

You're right though... Aja will need to maintain a long view on the Cion in order for it to be successful; it's going to get overwhelmed by the Ursa Mini shortly, but they've gotten so much right that if they continue to improve it, both the hardware and firmware, they could turn into a real winner.
 
I agree with you both. First they put themselves at a disadvantage if they are not being interactive with the user base. We have too much to choose from to deal with bad customer service. They are definitely no the only game in town. Other companies have been not only forthcoming in dealing with issues but quick to resolve and offer a work around. I remember they were pretty uppity at the NAB the camera was introduced at in several vids, even though we all new the sensor was the same as the bmpc4k. The issues with that cam were already becoming well documented but BMD was already working hard to fix several issues, and were one up on AJA with having already been in the field with several cams...and their color science is damn good. Brings me to Karl's point...ergonomically your camera looks great, but the image isn't there yet so why would I bother dealing with a product not there yet? I thought the PL only option was a mistake along with the original price (not to mention recording media). Oh well, they'll live and learn on this one.
 
Their biggest blunder was not getting the camera into the hands of actual artists early. You have to treat the Cion like Kodachrome to get the best out of it, though it has a LOT more latitude than Kodak E100G (which I loved for landscapes on 4x5 when I wasn't shooting Ilford Delta).

We don't actually know that they're using the same sensor as the one in the BMPC 4K. It's actually likely that it's more akin to (if the not the same as) the Ursa V2 sensor. Even that, however, is a guess, and anyone who claims to actually know for sure either works

Truth be told, we don't even know for sure that the BMD 4.6K sensor is the new Fairchild sensor, and we probably never will. Anyone claiming that they "know" which sensor it is either is violating an NDA or is full of it. That applies to both BMD and AJA.
 
Well one thing we do know is they dropped the ball. Even at $8999 I was excited and while I haven't seen anything to make me hate the camera, I haven't seen or read anything from guys like yourselves to make me want the camera either way. Hopefully they can pull it together, because they are in a crowded space.
 
Yes, it is becoming a somewhat crowded space. It's going to be an interesting year, to say the least. :)
 
Now that it's £4,000 it at least has a shot at being in amongst the competition. I don't know if they've ever answered this (is Jon Thorn still on here?) but if it was possible to swap the sensor and they were going to introduce a new one that might persuade people to buy it - use it as is for now but in the knowledge that in 6 months or so they can send it in for a sensor upgrade (something with more DR and better ISO) for say £1,500? It would be interesting to know if this was at all possible.
Steve
 
A sensor swap would be great and the best decision they would ever make with this thing.
 
Agreed. The Cion currently delivers excellent image quality, but it's going to need a sensor upgrade in order to stay in the running as technology moves forward. Frankly, I'd be surprised if they didn't plan for an upgrade; given how much money and engineering effor they put into it, they would have a plan for continuing to improve it, both with firmware updates and with hardware updates, even if they aren't user installable.

I'm also hoping that they'll come up with a compact external recorder that supports RAW so that there's a solution that can record 120fps finally. Right now, I don't know of any means to record 120fps raw from the Cion that doesn't require a computer.
 
The Odyssey Q7+ is the only hope capturing 120p 4K from the Cion might happen, in a practical, usable way that is.

If the Q7 can't do it, I'd just consider the camera not to have that spec, and go for an URSA if I require the 4K 120p raw image from the same sensor to internal cards.
 
Tamerlin said:
Truth be told, we don't even know for sure that the BMD 4.6K sensor is the new Fairchild sensor, and we probably never will. Anyone claiming that they "know" which sensor it is either is violating an NDA or is full of it. That applies to both BMD and AJA.
Click to expand...

Will it is, we know that, the specs of the sensors prove it 100% as well as their previous pocket fairchild business, it is a FCI sensor in the 4.6K URSAs.

Since it's for sale, I hope Aja could buy it if it proves as good as claimed once we see how the ursas do.

Could be a 1500/2000$ service for previous owners and stock in new versions.

When the Cion was being made remember there weren't really any choices to shop around from for an of the shelf 4K s35 cinema sensor, and the fairchild one is the only second choice now, that's why BM, AJA, AXIOM all took that sensor.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
Will it is, we know that, the specs of the sensors prove it 100% as well as their previous pocket fairchild business, it is a FCI sensor in the 4.6K URSAs.

Since it's for sale, I hope Aja could buy it if it proves as good as claimed once we see how the ursas do.
Click to expand...

The Fairchild 4.6K sensor on their website is NOT for sale to video camera makers, it can only be sold and used for scientific/medical/etc cameras. Presumably part of the deal Blackmagic made since they helped fund/design the sensor. Maybe in a few years that deal will expire and others can use it then, but everyone will probably be on 6K-8K sensors at that time?
 
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