CION still in the running vs FS7

I don't understand why you just don't use your own profiles in camera, as most of us use
with non-RAW cameras. I don't know if this is true, but also the "look" of the CION must be
some kind of profile at least. And I think/hope that the user can change the values of this "look"
or interpretation of the sensor data.

I seriously ask: Where are the highlights and why is the skintone so much off?
Is it the sensor, the profile, the lightning, the WB?
 
If you like the look as it is - the CION is perfect for you.

For me I need to know why the skintones have that strong magenta touch and miss
zhe subtle tonality, that an Alexa can give.
I think, they should just have graded the material or used better ligthsources and
white balancing. As I can't find any other footage of the CION so far, we really can't say
what the camera is capable of.

I mean, how much sense does it make to show "untouched" 12bit ProRes 4444 footage
transferred to a 8bit online platform without any control where the original "range" goes
to?
To me, it doesn't make any sense as any ENG Rec.709 camera will look very similar...
 
You can't judge the camera's colours by those images without a reference. We don't know if she threw 1 pound of pink blush on her skin before the shoot, we don't know what the scene actually looks, no information on the lighting, nothing. We have to see it next to another well-known camera before making any judgments of how the colours look.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
no information on the lighting
Click to expand...

The studio shots were captured using three point lighting utilizing both the supplied PL lens mount as well as a third party EF lens mount. With the exception of the umbrella shot, which utilised a single 1K light, the remaining shots were captured with available light. --- https://www.aja.com/en/products/cion/video

Ebrahim Saadawi said:
We don't know if she threw 1 pound of pink blush on her skin before the shoot
Click to expand...

Oh brother
 
Ive been quiet on the forum for a few days now because I have nothing to add.

Personally I way preffer what we have seen from the Coin to the FS7. Im scared that the Coin is, however, limited in the highlights. Im also scared that the FS7 can capture a huge range badly. I cant see a clear winner at the moment..

Maybe that is a flatter look from the Coin or a harder profile (Cine1?) in the FS7

Or maybe it is neither is any good and one just needs to spend proper wodge* to get a world class camera...

S

*or at least commit to raw and a heavy data load.
 
It will be nice to see some tests and footage so each can all decide if Cion is the right camera for the work we do. I sent an email to them the other day asking if any of the 3rd party lens adapter companies had plans to make a variable ND for the camera. I got a "non answer" from a nice fellow. No built in ND is a pain in the _ass but a variable ND like the Fotodiox ND Throttle would be fine. the question is how will something like that affect it optically if it is even possible? Or better yet why didn't they put one in themselves?
As I now consider a new camera, though I will wait until NAB and perhaps then some, the Cion really appeals to me. I want a cat on my shoulder after all of these years with what sometimes felt like bicycle handle bars holding my camera. Yes like you all I want great images too but the form and design of the Cion is very impressive for the cost of the camera. The Ursa, having seen one in person recently, is just too damn big and bulky.
 
That's pretty cool. I never saw that before. The third party mounts are mounts and not adapters so I guess it depends on how much room they have for something like that. It'd be cool for run and gun. Maybe check with those guys (MTF, Wooden Camera, etc)
 
I think the footage looks great. Also, what's not to love about ProRes 444?
I ordered one from Texas Media Sytems last week, and Joe Kelly informs me that it will be in the shop within the week.
One note: In my opinion, it is great to have broad dynamic range. But it seems that a lot of people don't know how to use it. I've never seen so many flat, milky and washed out commercials and the like, on TV.
It reminds me of the shallow depth of field craze, where everyone was shooting with barely a micron of focus. There's a place for shallow focus and a place for deep focus.
I think that right now, so many people are so obsessed with dynamic range that their pictures are not in any way "dynamic", but rather flat and lifeless.
For me, broad dynamic range gives me latitude to manipulate and sometimes save the image, but I have always preferred to get the lighting and exposure right in the first place.
 
louisyanan said:
The footage looks so fantastic!!!
Click to expand...
Funny thing about this reel. When it was first released or at least wherever it was that I first saw it, the stuff looked terrible. The skin tones skewed magenta, the contrast was crushed and the highlights burned out yellow. I honestly think that it was a bad encode onto YouTube or Vimeo or wherever, but boy did it do no favors to the CION. This version linked here looks quite nice, as the blonde model's skin iwould be very sensitive to green/magenta shift and the nature exteriors at the end show far better detail in the blacks and clean highlights.

I suffered a similar fate with the product release video for the Odyssey7Q+, In The Garden Of The Gods. We worked carefully in a color timing session at Light Iron to show the richness of color and detail available with our recorder from various cameras, but somehow in the uploading the colors because WAY saturated. Not as critical an issue for me but I certainly feel bad for AJA when they have a camera that can deliver lovely images and the sample reel gets screwed up.

This is why you can't trust any of these tests and demos and sample footage available on the internet. None of it means ANYTHING. If you want to know what the CION or any other camera looks like you should find a local dealer or reach out to the manufacturer to arrange a demo yourself.
 
Last night at Abel Cine/NYC, Jay Ignaszewski/AJA did a very detailed demo of the Cion.

I thought the camera did a very decent job rendering skin tones and color.

This is a camera that will take some thinking to make work-and that is not a negative-simply an observation.

It is no auto-everything, run and gun.

Though I am a fan of the images I've seen from the BM Ursa, the Cion is much much lighter.

When I got it onto my shoulder, I thought it balanced very well.

I am appreciative of guys like Jay, who know the business AND the craft.

YMMV

Be well.

Rob
Smalltalk Productions/NYC
 
I just got my Cion a few days ago. I was immediately notified of a firmware update that raised the sensitivity settings to 320, 500, 800 and 1000. While not a low light camera, this did make a difference. After playing with the camera for a few days, I have to say that the images are stunning. They are rich, full of depth and natural. Since I come from shooting film in the 80's and 90's, I was used to big heavy cameras, and thought that ASA 500 was really fast. I was also used to lighting almost every interior. Since I shoot almost nothing but dramatic narrative fiction, this camera was absolutely the right camera for me. It's not film, but it has the most similar feel to film I've experienced since switching to digital cinema.
This is the most excited I've been about a camera since I got the DVX100A about 10 years ago. I'm shooting a feature in about two months, and I am thrilled to be using this camera. Reminds of the Aaton super 16mm cameras we used to shoot with.
 
ProRes 4444 is awesome, looks great straight from the camera, yet has tons of latitude for grading. I can't see why I would go raw.
 
Hi Seamus,
Thanks for your nice post about CION. I'm going to share this with everyone at AJA who has worked so hard to make the camera possible.

Sincerely,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
 
CION owners and AJA,

When are the floodgates going to open and we get to see just what this camera is capable of doing?
 
Mitch Gross said:
Funny thing about this reel. When it was first released or at least wherever it was that I first saw it, the stuff looked terrible. The skin tones skewed magenta, the contrast was crushed and the highlights burned out yellow. I honestly think that it was a bad encode onto YouTube or Vimeo or wherever, but boy did it do no favors to the CION. This version linked here looks quite nice, as the blonde model's skin iwould be very sensitive to green/magenta shift and the nature exteriors at the end show far better detail in the blacks and clean highlights.
Click to expand...

Another funny thing about the reel- this link above the color looks significantly better, but when I go to Vimeo or look at the link via AJA's website- I see the magenta tinted skin tones again.???

Mitch, I went to the Adorama demo/intro, and frankly, it was terrible I thought. Didn't remember local 600 sending a notice out about the Abel intro... BUT the AJA guy said AJA RAW is simply cDNG and 3rd party recorders (like the 7Q I own) should be able to record 4K RAW up to 120 fps. Can you confirm that- or is it coming in the near future?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top