CinemaScope

[D_and_G]

Likewise, I'm interested HVX for film out. When it comes out, how are you going to judge if it's adequate? Are you going to wait and shoot some footage, and do the blowup yourself, or rely on other sources ?

Cheers.

Now that the HVX is forthcoming, we are hoping that its 720p performance will be good enough to go forward. If it holds up to film out blowup at 1.778 (and looks good from any seat in a theater), then I don't see any reason to assume that matting it down to 2.35 would be appreciably worse. I have high aspirations for this camera, with its 4:2:2 color sampling and apparently very high resolution (from what I saw at Resfest in LA) it may be just what we need. The only down side is that I do expect that it will be 1 or more stops slower than the DVX so we will have to add a little to our lighting budget, but I don't expect this to be a serious issue for our application. December is only a matter of days off, so all this speculation will soon be over.

 

[Neil Rowe]

cropping the HVX 1080 24P to 2.35:1 will be plenty enough res for filmout. ..even the dvx cropped to 16:9 was "good enough" if your worried about every last pixel. your worried about the wrong things IMHO. proper focus, post integrity, and the contrast of your film will make the image appear sharper than having the extra pixels. otherwise you could consider shooting 16:9 as alot of films are and not have to crop. all things aside we have a 1080 24p camera. so shooting naitive cinemascope is not a real chart topper for me. anamorphic shooting on systems with such high res is fading away due to the fact that any slight gain in the actual eventual percieved resolution is nominal due to the law of diminishing returns, and the gains in focus ability and workflow in the field will likely yeild equal to better results than dealing with anamorphic astigmatism and the improper focus issues therein. not saying anamorphic isnt great when used properly.. just saying that even if used properly the percieved gain in res over a cropped high res system yeilds itself to the l;aw of diminishing returns. the cropped image is already great. and the slightly softer focus due to the anamorphic tends to offset any actual yeild in sharpness or percieved resolution against somthing which already has well enough resolution.

the benefits are much more readily apparent in DV IMHO where any pixel gain will yeild more percieved res.. but again . in higher res.. diminishing returns.. i dont think the audience will notice.. but yould certainly notice having to work with it. and its ALMOST ALWAYS softning the image over non anamorphic especially in tele shots.. so shallow DOF takes a back seat in these small format (1/3" CCD) systems as well.

anyway.. just IMHO.

 

[khmuse]

Likewise, I'm interested HVX for film out. When it comes out, how are you going to judge if it's adequate? Are you going to wait and shoot some footage, and do the blowup yourself, or rely on other sources ?

Cheers.

I will absolutely do a film out test to judge the quality of the entire process and will certainly compare it to the print that I have of the DVX/LA7200 footage we shot last year. I would never rely solely upon the opinions of any else when it comes to a substantial project.

We will likely take a few weeks to work with the HVX first before committing to a film out test shot, just to be absolutely certain that we have a good grasp on the HVX and its capabilities. I will likely to shoot 720p for this test as this would be representative of how we would use the camera in production.

 

[khmuse]

cropping the HVX 1080 24P to 2.35:1 will be plenty enough res for filmout. ..even the dvx cropped to 16:9 was "good enough" if your worried about every last pixel.

While the results obtained from the DVX (DVX/LA7200 combo) were impressive for a camera in its price range, they fell a little short of what we considered acceptable. As I mentioned in my earlier post, it wasn't bad from the middle to the back of the theater, but anything closer than half way up you could easily see that the resolution and undersampled color of an SD system was too limiting of a factor. I should also mention that we shot a similar test using the F900 and certainly it had the resolution, but its overall look didn't justify the massively greater costs. We came to the conclusion that if we were going to spend that kind of money, we would just play it safe and shoot S16 then print up to 35 (possibly using a DI).

If all goes well with the HVX, I expect that we can revive this project and finally make something out of it.

 

[Emanuel]

Thanks for your interpelation. Sorry but for a non-native in english (in addition more technical) is very difficult understand completely the full sense of your thoughts but if I understood there is some points that I'd like clarify.

[in conclusion:]

[1]

cropping the HVX 1080 24P to 2.35:1 will be plenty enough res for filmout. ..even the dvx cropped to 16:9 was "good enough"(...) the cropped image is already great.

[2]

if your worried about every last pixel. your worried about the wrong things IMHO. proper focus, post integrity, and the contrast of your film will make the image appear sharper than having the extra pixels.

[others]

What do you mean? [with:]

...otherwise you could consider shooting 16:9 as alot of films are and not have to crop

[II]

i dont think the audience will notice.. but yould certainly notice having to work with it. and its ALMOST ALWAYS softning the image over non anamorphic especially in tele shots..

[III]

..so shallow DOF takes a back seat in these small format (1/3" CCD) systems as well.

[III] Shallow DOF like a crucial factor (and it enters here the 35mm still lenses adaptor, for instance) or exactly the reverse? («back seat» can have different readings from one to another one, regarding the cultural context, etc.).

 

[D_and_G]

Besides the test charts, what kind of lighting/colours would you consider testing for?

Also, how much footage, and what would this cost approx ? Since, I intend on doing this with a lab in Toronto, I don't know if it would be worth it, money wise, for them to do it.

Cheers.

We will likely take a few weeks to work with the HVX first before committing to a film out test shot, just to be absolutely certain that we have a good grasp on the HVX and its capabilities. I will likely to shoot 720p for this test as this would be representative of how we would use the camera in production.

 

[myfriendimage]

I dont think prosumer will have 2:35 guides for a while its not a big enough aspect ratio, people make things for their widescreen TV's all the time, but not for their 2.35 aspect ration TV's, so I think it will only be for the camera devoted to movies f900 etc..

 

[khmuse]

Besides the test charts, what kind of lighting/colours would you consider testing for?

Also, how much footage, and what would this cost approx ? Since, I intend on doing this with a lab in Toronto, I don't know if it would be worth it, money wise, for them to do it.

Cheers.

Besides just shooting color chips and resolution charts, I plan on shooting a variety of different scenes with conditions very similar to what we will be shooting later. In my recent experience, the costs of a film out test ran between $325 to $375 per minute for a one off print. I would think that 5 - 10 minutes of edited footage would be enough for me come to a decision on the camera.

If you are going to be pushing a feature through a facility, I would think that you can negotiate a pretty decent rate for your test shots. At a minimum, you might ask if they would rebate back a portion of the test costs when you come back with a feature footage. Remember that everything is negotiable.

I would be interested to learn what prices you get quoted in Toronto if you would care to share them, my numbers are based upon last summer in LA.

 

[Shaw]

Actually optically stretching the image vertically and then projecting anamorphically at 2.35:1 is a good way of doing things to make maximum use of the resolution.

Yes indeed. The system is commonly refered to as a "bravais system." I've been working on such an adapter to be used with 35mm lens adapters for some time now. It's been an expensive journey but results are starting to come in and it's impressive (I've only tried it on the DVX so far). Combine that with a mini35 (or alternate adapter) and you would have 2.35 on the HVX. I'm looking forward to testing it out.