Pretty excellent skintones, even compared to ARRI and Canon:
When/if Panasonic combines this look with phase detect-level AF and a ~6K sensor:
(big waves!).
Pretty excellent skintones, even compared to ARRI and Canon:
When/if Panasonic combines this look with phase detect-level AF and a ~6K sensor:
(big waves!).S1H outperforms every camera in the sub-$10,000 price point on specs. One can quibble with UMP and C200 recording Raw vs. the internal V-log and leave the claimed dynamic range in the "yet to be determined" category.
The above disclaimers notwithstanding, this is where the industry is headed. ARRI can do whatever it wants - its LF's are perfectly fine for big budget TV and feature niche - but the rest have to follow the herd.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I kind of agree with you. The S1H has amazing specs for the money. But it's form factor is awful for professional video/digital cinema production and I'm talking just OMB stuff, much less crewed production.
Frankenrigs are bad enough for cameras like the C200/300MKII/FS7MKII but for non-video cameras, they are unbearable. Just for kicks, I tried to shoulder rig build out my XT-3 and it was unusable,
it's like sitting on the back of a Greyhound while racing Thoroughbreds. Although perhaps the S1H in a cage with a monitor and a mic is bearable?
I'll be interested to see what comes out of Panasonic 18 months from now. I can't find the quote now, but the VP of imaging said that they were going to combine the camera divisions. The good is it eliminates redundant positions which is needed now as the cash flow may not be so robust. The bad is that executive management will put out some edict to force sharing of R&D. This can be beneficial but it often results in less than optimized products.
It's like having the sports car and truck divisions being force to share technology. It's not good.
It's like having the sports car and truck divisions being force to share technology. It's not good.
G
Guest
Guest
So, camera compnaies are going to combine their stills and video divisions. Then companies like Arri and Red will have to spend a lot on developing high end specialty cinema cameras, and the prices are going to go up, as the market size goes down... so real cinema cameras are going to be $250,000 and more again, and rentals will be the norm. Full circle.
Soderbergh saw this coming. That's why he switched to iPhone
On a serious note, iPhone made certain kinds of impossible filming with cinema cameras, possible: https://www.indiewire.com/2019/02/h...n-soderbergh-apple-iphone-netflix-1202043102/
Only major tech issue was Apple's color processing changes even when everything is supposed to be locked. Not clear if Apple has 'fixed' this behavior (they may not since that's not the main market for iPhones, though they could certainly expose an API for app makers (e.g. Filmic Pro) to completely lock color processing).
Along with the ultra high price of the new Mac Pro and Porsche style pricing ($1000 monitor stand!), I think it's actually great that pro cameras are going to go up massively in the near future. In my brief foray into the world of filmmaking from the tech world, I observed the massive drop in pay over time for media production (tech dropped too, but not nearly as much. Now it's going back up!). That drop appeared to track the drop in cost of tools: cameras etc. So for people like you who work full time in the media/filmmaking market with high levels of talent, as the flooded market of low cost creators dries up, pay rates for talented creators will go back up.
Something similar happened in tech- lots of easier to use languages were released, which reduced the cost of training of developers, lowering the threshold of skill to fill developer rolls. The unfortunate side effect was that while certain aspects of development had become easier (e.g. dealing with memory safely), higher levels of skill such as architecture and design weren't also present, and thus while more software was developed, the design, quality, and performance dropped significantly.
Thus another side effect of much higher prices for pro-level gear and a reduction in cheap production: it will leave only the most skilled/talented folks in the market, resulting in higher quality content!
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
I don't agree with this, it would be unprecedented. Of course, predicting the future is difficult and I could be just as wrong but since the digital video revolution began (let's say 1998), name one year, and one top line model of camera where costs significantly increased. Cameras these days are computers with lenses, they either stay at stasis on price or price decreases as overall capability expands.
I instead predict that we are almost already at stasis or beginning entropy since the global market for filmed entertainment is shrinking, not increasing according to PWC. https://www.pwc.com/us/en/industries/tmt/library/global-entertainment-media-outlook.html All you need to do is to look at the entertainment industry monoliths consuming themselves, Disney already owns almost everything and the word on the street is consolidation, the bigger fish are eating the smaller fish and so it will continue. This is never a sign of a healthy and robust market that is spearheading innovation, it's the result of a bloated structure with too many expensive players for too little revenue. The main growth areas are social media infrastructure spending which is increasing but social media will largely continue it's growth based upon user generated low end content, primarily coming from emerging markets like the BRIC countries. The other area of growth is e-sports. Theaters will continue to close and individual budgets for filmed entertainment will continue their downward slide, while overall growth will supposedly hold at stasis over the next five years.
filmguy123
Veteran
Other market prediction: number of YouTube camera tests and travel vlogs will continue to increase
Run&Gun
Veteran
Maybe it's just me, but the smaller the camera(like DSLR form factor/"handycam" form factor) the harder it is to use one-man-band style.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Just depends on the generation/user.
Shoulder cameras or the C200s-FS7s-EVA1s are useless for someone like me who is used to doing everything in milliseconds with a mirrorless/DSLR.
All of these new mirrorless' have at least 8-10+ programmable buttons, and of course also their dials (front-back-thumb) can control aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, so you can literally be changing those three at the same time if your brain is up for the task.
Then with some cams you can also hold buttons or press them a few times to cycle through different options/functions.
Add flawless auto-focus and excellent IBIS, and it's a true blessing.
The camera could be floating in the air while you're shooting f/1.2 with perfect focus.
IMO, the problem or misconception arises when people try to build them into cinema cameras and then have a difficult time operating them like those systems that are meant to be used on the shoulder or a certain way with certain gear.
Use them how they are supposed to be used (like photography cameras) and you'll eventually be able to shoot with your eyes closed.
Shoulder cameras or the C200s-FS7s-EVA1s are useless for someone like me who is used to doing everything in milliseconds with a mirrorless/DSLR.
All of these new mirrorless' have at least 8-10+ programmable buttons, and of course also their dials (front-back-thumb) can control aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, so you can literally be changing those three at the same time if your brain is up for the task.
Then with some cams you can also hold buttons or press them a few times to cycle through different options/functions.
Add flawless auto-focus and excellent IBIS, and it's a true blessing.
The camera could be floating in the air while you're shooting f/1.2 with perfect focus.
IMO, the problem or misconception arises when people try to build them into cinema cameras and then have a difficult time operating them like those systems that are meant to be used on the shoulder or a certain way with certain gear.
Use them how they are supposed to be used (like photography cameras) and you'll eventually be able to shoot with your eyes closed.
https://www.redsharknews.com/produc...s-were-used-to-shoot-major-feature-film-stand
I am not sure I understand everything that was promoted there but ... these folks shot a (fairly low) budget musical film on the UMP's and, from the BTS footage, it looks like a lot of footage was taken off the stabilizer arms with the camera ops deftly moving in and out of the previously determined spots. And that was with the pro quality manual lenses without the IBIS.
The film was (partially/fully?) funded by the BMD - take that, Panasonic - but the IQ seemed, if not on the "Roger Deakins with an Alexa65" level, still decent enough. IMO, with the industry spreading out into multiple streamers thereby increasing the number of the entertainment options but lowering their personal appeal, upping the production tempo and then working out the quirks in post will be the major requirement. And then it's Alexa LF Mini for the big boys and something lower on the food chain for everyone else.
I am not sure I understand everything that was promoted there but ... these folks shot a (fairly low) budget musical film on the UMP's and, from the BTS footage, it looks like a lot of footage was taken off the stabilizer arms with the camera ops deftly moving in and out of the previously determined spots. And that was with the pro quality manual lenses without the IBIS.
The film was (partially/fully?) funded by the BMD - take that, Panasonic - but the IQ seemed, if not on the "Roger Deakins with an Alexa65" level, still decent enough. IMO, with the industry spreading out into multiple streamers thereby increasing the number of the entertainment options but lowering their personal appeal, upping the production tempo and then working out the quirks in post will be the major requirement. And then it's Alexa LF Mini for the big boys and something lower on the food chain for everyone else.
But the funny thing here is that one could easily make a bigger body, with screens and buttons and what not. It was Sony's marketing ploy to show that the mirrorless had a size advantage over the DSLR, which forced their line into the physically smaller bodies that couldn't handle the heat generated by its processors. Now that everyone is on the mirrorless train, they can dispense with the ploy and make both the full and the mini Alexa copies ... at least, form wise.
NorBro
Major Contributor
That particular sample is heavily criticized in the BM community because the cameras are capable of a much better look.
filmguy123 said something the other day about how random YouTube samples from random people/nobodies persuaded his decision on the EVA1 (I think it was that camera) and it's true; a lot of the best work is unknown, and those are the clips you want to be looking for...for every camera.
I recall watching (online?) a clip of John Sayles's "Return of the Secaucus 7" (or, at least, I think that's what it was). David Strathairn, playing a professor/instructor, is giving a college lecture - shot wobbly on hand-held 16mm, grainy footage, flat look, likely done in a single take with the reaction shots sliced in ... which means you can't always get what you want and the directors/cam op's better get used to the style. The first try is always the hardest.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Honestly, what's the point of "lean pastrami"? It's like decaffinated coffee or soda -- why bother?
And yeah, they have the pickled tomatoes. But i'm a fan of the classic sour dill pickle. Enough sodium in one bite to float on water. I think that's how the Jews crossed the Red Sea. They ate such salty food they didn't have to part the waters but instead just walked on top.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
So the #19 is an un-toasted Rachel (variant of a Reuben)? I'm sure it's delicious, but you're excommunicated. Katz's still rules.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
I've had Langer's and it was great. But I still prefer my Katz's.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Which is how I am with a real ENG camera vs. any of these small ones. It's pretty much all reflex. Iris up or down: flick of a finger without conscious thought. More ND, less ND: roll the turret with my fingers in fractions of a second. 2-ch wireless in a built-in slot: no extraneous cables and crap hanging off the camera. Nat mic on the VF out of the way going to two dedicated ch's, no switching or going back and forth with cables. Etc., etc. But it's what I'm used to and prefer. The camera is sitting on and supported by my shoulder. My hands are available all for operating and not just holding the camera.