Cinegear 2019 News and Rumors

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James0b57 said:
Going Deakins and present muzz with an atmos logo on it. ;)
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This is intriguing, wonder which holes are left in their lineup? Ninja V is selling really well as are the Shinobi twins. The new top of the line Shogun 7 is already known about, wonder what it could be? High Brightness Ninja VI for $999.00? Any other guesses?
I'll be there, will definitely stop by the Atomos booth to see what's up.
 
puredrifting said:
This is intriguing, wonder which holes are left in their lineup? Ninja V is selling really well as are the Shinobi twins. The new top of the line Shogun 7 is already known about, wonder what it could be? High Brightness Ninja VI for $999.00? Any other guesses?
I'll be there, will definitely stop by the Atomos booth to see what's up.
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There have been a decent number of us who have
expressed interest in a Ninja V style recorder (5 inch screen)
with an SDI port and the recording options of the Shogun
Inferno. Smaller recorder as the Inferno is a bit much for
mirrorless cams and even the FS5 would work better with
a smaller recorder. If that’s what they are bringing, I might
be first in line.
 
alaskacameradude said:
There have been a decent number of us who have
expressed interest in a Ninja V style recorder (5 inch screen)
with an SDI port and the recording options of the Shogun
Inferno. Smaller recorder as the Inferno is a bit much for
mirrorless cams and even the FS5 would work better with
a smaller recorder. If that’s what they are bringing, I might
be first in line.
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Since they are getting ready to ship the Atom X SDI module for the Ninja V, the chances of this seem remote to me.
As far as Prores RAW and CDNG recording, personally I am not sure if there is much of a market for those. Prores RAW
seems DOA and CDNG was just eliminated from the BMPCC 4K, isn't it? I'm not very familiar with the options on the
Shogun Inferno but would those be it? Or DNxHR, would that be important? It seems so few editors besides high end
features/episodic are on AVID these days, not sure.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1471487-REG/atomos_atomxsdi01_atomx_sdi_module_for.html
 
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alaskacameradude said:
There have been a decent number of us who have
expressed interest in a Ninja V style recorder (5 inch screen)
with an SDI port and the recording options of the Shogun
Inferno. Smaller recorder as the Inferno is a bit much for
mirrorless cams and even the FS5 would work better with
a smaller recorder. If that’s what they are bringing, I might
be first in line.
Click to expand...

They are saying big news so I'm going to go big.

I think an improved version of ProRes RAW could be coming so maybe this is what Atomos is showing. In addition to making camera metadata available to would be cool to have to have ProRes RAW available at additional compression ratios. It would be nice if they added a LT variant for less critical shoots and an XQ variant for cinema work. Arri's FAQ says "ProRes RAW is a new addition to the family of ProRes Codecs which is in its early stages and we are currently looking into it" which implies ARRi has knowledge of future updates. Hopefully now if the time for the update to come.

I'm not sure Atomos has the resources to pull this off but I think an wireless module for the Ninja V or even better a wireless capable Shogun 7 would also be pretty sweet.

There also might be a market for a ProRes RAW capable Shogun Star without a monitor similar to the Ninja Star of yesteryear for those who want to smallest recorder.

These are just guesses of course but this years show is looking much more interesting than it did a week ago.
 
puredrifting said:
Since they are getting ready to ship the Atom X SDI module for the Ninja V, the chances of this seem remote to me.
As far as Prores RAW and CDNG recording, personally I am not sure if there is much of a market for those. Prores RAW
seems DOA and CDNG was just eliminated from the BMPCC 4K, isn't it? I'm not very familiar with the options on the
Shogun Inferno but would those be it? Or DNxHR, would that be important? It seems so few editors besides high end
features/episodic are on AVID these days, not sure.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1471487-REG/atomos_atomxsdi01_atomx_sdi_module_for.html
Click to expand...

First off, Atom X SDI won’t really work though. It has been
confirmed that it will not accept Sony Raw for example. I
would also disagree about ProRes Raw being DOA, but I could
certainly be wrong on that. Given Atomos’s
relationship with Apple, I was expecting ProRes Raw of some
sort(a new version maybe?) on whatever they came up with.
I’m just speculating like everyone else, who really knows
what they will do?
 
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So, both Sony A7RII and A7RIII are being heavily discounted right now, four days before the official announcement ... of something. Is the new full frame camera just waiting to be revealed? If so, why at/just prior to Cinegear?

Off Wikipedia, Sony does have two full frame sensors (IMX 455 and IMX 551) with nearly identical specs -- 61.2 MPX, 12 fps -- each initially listed in September, 2018. (along with several others, most notably the 102 MPX IMX 461, which is the one inside the recently introduced Fuji GFX 100).
 
DLD said:
So, both Sony A7RII and A7RIII are being heavily discounted right now, four days before the official announcement ... of something. Is the new full frame camera just waiting to be revealed? If so, why at/just prior to Cinegear?
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The mythical A7S III? That'd be pretty cool.
 
^ This. And my guess for the next a7S is that it will have a stacked sensor with the same 24 Mpix of the Venice but with less powerful backend layers (12bit ADCs instead of 14/16bit ADCs). And I also guess they decided they can't bring another 8-bit flagship video body and are having trouble finishing the low-cost 10-bit encoding processor.
 
DLD said:
On specs, more like A7RIV with 551, with Canon and Nikon getting 455, which has a lower output (8 lanes vs. 16)
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Keeping the mythical virtual carrot out in front and never releasing it could be a clever marketing strategy lol.
 
jcs said:
Keeping the mythical virtual carrot out in front and never releasing it could be a clever marketing strategy lol.
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Indeed it is. I am waiting for A7S3, or I will switch. Not because I need latest and greatest but because I have two systems. I would like to choose only one. My A7III is awesome but not enough to justify keeping it with lenses nor buying new ones.
 
DLD said:
So, both Sony A7RII and A7RIII are being heavily discounted right now, four days before the official announcement ... of something. Is the new full frame camera just waiting to be revealed? If so, why at/just prior to Cinegear?...
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So, while taking a shower, I had a few more thoughts (not involving Lauren Graham, I meant).

Samuel H said:
^ This. And my guess for the next a7S is that it will have a stacked sensor with the same 24 Mpix of the Venice but with less powerful backend layers (12bit ADCs instead of 14/16bit ADCs). And I also guess they decided they can't bring another 8-bit flagship video body and are having trouble finishing the low-cost 10-bit encoding processor.
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IMX 551 is 16 lanes. Which means --- this seems so simple and obvious, I am ashamed to have needed six additional hours to realize this ... though these six hours were my sleep time- it will have 8K video. With or, most likely, without a crop. Probably in H265. Conceivably, with some line skipping/pixel binning a la GFX 100.

Which is why it's timed with Cinegear. 8K for ~ $3,500. If Sharp can do it, Sony can surely do it better. The sensor that will go to Canon and Nikon will only have 4K, with line skipping/pixel binning.

Or crop (Canon loves crop).
 
I'm still mystified why Sony seems so far behind in specs with the current A7s that B&H is blowing out? 8-bit 4:2:0 at 100Mbps max, that just seems really low end specs compared to Panasonic, Fuji, not Canon so much as their specs are lousy too. This new camera has to at least include 10-bit and much higher data rates. 100Mbps for UHD is terrible, that's drone level.
I hope it's not 8K, that will just accelerate the another round of pointless resolution wars, but maybe the market response to 8K will be terrible (fingers crossed). If I was in the market for a new camera, I would purposely avoid 8K, teeny tiny pixels, ridiculous overkill on file and storage size, etc. But people can be sheeple, if the almighty Sony says you aren't cool without
8K, a lot of suckers will bite. It woud be much more practical if the new camera had a 6K imager, shooting FF to 4K 4:2:2 and 10-bit or even 12-bit. That would actually be appealing.
 
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DLD said:
So, while taking a shower, I had a few more thoughts (not involving Lauren Graham, I meant).

IMX 551 is 16 lanes. Which means --- this seems so simple and obvious, I am ashamed to have needed six additional hours to realize this ... though these six hours were my sleep time- it will have 8K video. With or, most likely, without a crop. Probably in H265. Conceivably, with some line skipping/pixel binning a la GFX 100.

Which is why it's timed with Cinegear. 8K for ~ $3,500. If Sharp can do it, Sony can surely do it better. The sensor that will go to Canon and Nikon will only have 4K, with line skipping/pixel binning.

Or crop (Canon loves crop).
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IMX551 has been shelved. And IMX455 is for third party use only, won't be in Sony products. It'll most likely be IMX651.

Yes its 8K moving picture mode has a 1.18x crop.

IMX455.jpg

IMX551.jpg

IMX551_2.jpg
 
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boo said:
Curious...Why ProRes RAW DOA?
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There have been a lot of articles discussing this. Personally I think it's just format overload, too many incompatible forms of RAW out there already, does the world need yet another one?
BMD is smart with their version as they make the camera that shoots it and the editing software that edits it. Apple can't do the same as they don't make Pro cameras. CDNG, Canon Cinema RAW Light,
Arri RAW, Redcode, Sony RAW, Uncompressed DPX, we're back to too many incompatible formats. I wish that all of the proprietary ones could be erased and every camera would just use the same one but that'll never happen obviously.

I just don't see any new cameras hitting that can shoot Prores RAW, have you? Maybe there are some I missed the details on?
 
puredrifting said:
There have been a lot of articles discussing this. Personally I think it's just format overload, too many incompatible forms of RAW out there already, does the world need yet another one?
BMD is smart with their version as they make the camera that shoots it and the editing software that edits it. Apple can't do the same as they don't make Pro cameras. CDNG, Canon Cinema RAW Light,
Arri RAW, Redcode, Sony RAW, Uncompressed DPX, we're back to too many incompatible formats. I wish that all of the proprietary ones could be erased and every camera would just use the same one but that'll never happen obviously.

I just don't see any new cameras hitting that can shoot Prores RAW, have you? Maybe there are some I missed the details on?
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Famous last words. The iPhone could shoot raw tomorrow with an app or firmware update. ;)
 
J.Brown said:
6k is the sweet spot. No need for more.
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For right now, i agree. That is 6k raw, and not actual real 6K detail, i assume? As what we have been calling 4k the last few years is probably not 4K
 
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