CineForm

This might not be cineforms problem, but...

I converted footage shot at 720p 24 fps, overcranked to 60 fps. in the conversion I changed the image size from 960/720 to 1280/720. I pulled this into vegas 6, with a timeline setting of 1280 720 square pixel and 24 fps, but the overcranked footage playsback real-time, not slow motion...

what am I doing wrong?


other than that, i'm very impressed with cineform. I've been using hdlink with an HVRZ1U for a while now, and have had zero problems.
 
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David Newman said:
Have you confirmed this? We don't promote the support as we haven't tested it, but it should work (if you don't use the scalers.)
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You're right, I'm wrong... I had scaling turned on which creates a green file.

So, DVCPRO 50 support in CineForm... sweeeet, as the younglings say...

Jim Arthurs
 
David Newman said:
I numbered your questions.

1) Yes, there are no restictions where you convert from or two. From P2 media to thumb drive if you like, or copu your MXF files to a hard drive for later conversion. It is flexible.

2) The resulting AVIs are standalone, no MXF file is needed for later processing. Note: As an AVI an only stores stereo PCM, we also produce a WAV file for channels 3 and 4. So the complex P2 directory structure for each shot is simplified to a AVI and WAV file.

3) Not so much "Capture", but yes you can batch convert a directory of MXF files into their equivalent AVIs.

4) No disadvantages, and yes significantly faster -- that is what CineForm in known for.
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THE HOLY GRAIL !!!!!!!!!!!

i need this
 
I just went to the site to buy it thinking it was the same price as RayLight at $199. Then I find it's $499.

Was there a special price for HVXusers at $200?

iF SO, WHERE DO i GET THAT?

I am not sure if I am ready to pay $499 for a conversion software.
$199 is a sure thing. If it is $499,

I will wait for the bugs to get worked out like I am doing with the firestore.
 
Connect HD is the product you are thinking of at $199. It is just the codec and the conversion tools, without all the Premiere Pro performance options. You can purchase Connect HD and upgrade to Aspect HD for the difference in price at any time.
 
Jim Arthurs said:
You're right, I'm wrong... I had scaling turned on which creates a green file.

So, DVCPRO 50 support in CineForm... sweeeet, as the younglings say...

Jim Arthurs
Click to expand...

We could add the scaler support (or disable it) for DVCPRO 50. If the much point in scaling DVCPRO-50 up to HD?
 
David Newman said:
We could add the scaler support (or disable it) for DVCPRO 50. If the much point in scaling DVCPRO-50 up to HD?
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Nothing wrong with having SD to HD scaling if necessary... In my case today I just accidentally let it rip on a "mixed" directory of 720p, DVCPRO-50 and 1080 files, all set to scale to 1280 by 720. When I saw the "green" avi I just thought DVCPRO-50 wasn't an option.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
 
We should definitely allow of such a batch conversion to work flawlessly, even with the scaler on, particularly as scaling everything to 1280x720 I think is a valuable workflow for this camera. The 1280x1080 modes don't resolve that much more vertical than the 720p, yet they do have the extra horizontal punch that makes them worth while. Also the 1080 modes double the effective bit-rate per frame, again giving a pristine 1280x720 scaled master.
 
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CacheMoneyVideo said:
how does it work with vegas?
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CineForm products work in Vegas just like any other avi file. Vegas 6.0 includes native support for CineForm Intermediate. Just import your clips like you normally would into a project with the correct frame rate and resolution settings and edit away. For capturing purposes you'll need to use the HDLink utility, but the good thing about it is that it captures and converts (to CFHD files) all in one pass.
 
You guys at Cineform are just amazing. I'm totally sold on your product.

I look forward to getting a computer fast enough to allow me to use Prospect to capture uncompressed directly to my HD.
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Export an image sequence from Edius, then load a frame or the sequence into Photoshop or AE and check spot info. Or, throw a levels adjustment on it and see that the lowest value of a black area in the image is around 15,15,15 RGB.
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Lardy lard! You are right!

I was wondering why the jpeg stills are washed out when exported from Edius. Had hoped to show off some of the shots on why the HVX excells, but when I saw the jpegs I nixed the idea. They look flat compared to the Edius playback.


... maybe there's a toggle somewhere to adjust or remove setup from exports, I sure don't know the program after an afternoon of messing with it enough to know... All I know is that an image sequence has setup burned into it, and that's an immediate loss. I think the levels are correct when viewed internally on the waveform, but something is happening on export.
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I'm only starting to understand the problems dealing with setup. Hopefully Edius can fix this and give the option of turning it off.

My first few tries at exporting sequences (uncompressed and Targa still sequences) to AE and back have been disappointing. Hopefully it's something I'm doing wrong.... I can't live without AE.


I agree that the program has terrific MXF support and playback speed is great. However, I move my shots around from program to program and need more of a universal codec than just being able to work with my Panny footage in one single NLE package...
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Thanks for answering, Jim. You've been really informative.

I thought I was going insane for a while...
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stabwound said:
My first few tries at exporting sequences (uncompressed and Targa still sequences) to AE and back have been disappointing. Hopefully it's something I'm doing wrong.... I can't live without AE.

I thought I was going insane for a while...
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No Problem, for even more info, check out this thread and the posts from Marcus and David on the issue and the various approaches to the problem.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=57654

Jim Arthurs
 
stabs experience demostrates my point that computer graphics RGB (rather than video systems) is what is expected in tools like AE.

So back on subject: even these last few posts demonstrates the CineForm approach has a very high degree of compatibility for sending files between tools. AVI is a universal format on the PC, and the codec multigeneration performance is designed for this very purpose. So a bit a product plug, but based on the overwhelmingly postive feedback from the HVX beta support, we are feeling this an excellent market for our tools.
 
David, while I have you here a quick question. When I last tried Aspect HD a few months ago it seem to be impossible to use the 2nd Monitor for the realtime playback.

What I normally do in Premiere is, Project > Project Settings > General ..., then Playback Settings. In a Premiere HDV project I can set Realtime Playback > Desktop Video > External Device: Montor:2. This makes my 2nd monitor my preview monitor which is quite convenient, because I do not have a full res HD Video monitor.

When creating an Aspect HD project, the Premiere Playback Settings dialog is replaced by a CineForm one. And there I don't have the option of selecting my 2nd montor for fullscreen playback.

Is this a know limitation, can or is it already fixed or did I just oversee the correct option?

Thanks so much for hanging out here on the forums and giving advice. It is really remarkable to have a CTO of such a great company here!

Jack
 
Aspect HD supports a second monitor for full screen preview, but it requires you video card be setup for it (99% of dual head card support it.) In the playback settings window these is also the "scrub to external overlay" option (which is how the full screen monitor works.) If you have trouble setting this up, please file a ticket at www.cineform.com/support.
 
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Hello David, thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions.

I was wondering how the CineForm codec stacks up against the sheer video 10bit codec or the Avid DNxHD?
Also when is the intel-mac version going to be out and/or will it already work running on boot camp?
And where is your product sold in Sydney Australia. Do you know if it will be on display at the Digital Media Festival that is being held in Melbourne in June?
 
peter orland said:
I was wondering how the CineForm codec stacks up against the sheer video 10bit codec or the Avid DNxHD?
Also when is the intel-mac version going to be out and/or will it already work running on boot camp?
And where is your product sold in Sydney Australia. Do you know if it will be on display at the Digital Media Festival that is being held in Melbourne in June?
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Peter, we haven't done much direct comparison with either codec as there are not commonly used in the PC NLEs we where initially targeting (although we are now branching out.) Sheer I understand it is mathematically lossless, which makes a good replacement for uncompressed, yet the data rate will still be fairly high (lossless HD still typically requires a RAID for simpliest projects.) Avid DNxHD is really just like a higher bit-rate full HD res. version of DVCPRO-HD -- it is a fixed bit-rate (CBR) DCT codec that seems more optimized for camera/tape implement than post. Sorry, I didn't think too highly of CBR codecs used for post-production. Sheer is optimized for the highest quality and not storage space, so it is at the upper-end of VBR codec, nice if you a have the disk space and speed. CineForm is a VBR visually lossless wavelet codec, which means the bit-rate is significantly lower than Sheer, similar data rate to DNxHD.

We are porting to intel-mac, but in the mean-time boot camp will work fine.

For Australian dealers visit http://www.cineform.com/purchase/resellers.htm or you can simply purchase through the CineForm website.
 
What would be your recommendations for capturing 1080 25p (I live in pal land) for a film out?

Would you capture to the camera then convert via the cineform 10bit codec for post? Or would you capture to a computer/aja combination bypassing the DVC HD codec? Would it make that much difference either way as the initial capture?

Also why doesn't the blackmagic cards work with your software?
 
David:

I gave Aspect Trial a whirl on Premiere, with a focus on generating wmv's. My absolutely subjective impressions are at:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=57992

The wmv's generated by Premiere looked disappointing (no fault of Aspect... the intermediate footage looked detailed and sharp viewed with the Microsoft player).

I hope it is useful to you.
 
Yes it was useful, I gave some suggestions on re-running you WMV exports to get the quality you expect. There are some differences between the beta version you are running the release Aspect HD 4.1.
 
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